We inspired Nazi Germany? | History of Forced Sterilization in the United States

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Hiatus Update! – How Did We Not Know That

We miss you guys and hope to resume again soon. We are closing all of our Social Media accounts except Youtube and we will be releasing a project there starting July 8th and ending by Oct 1st. Thanks for Everything, Jac & Nat — Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/hdwnkt/support

1. Hiatus Update! 02:15
2. What's The Definition of "Sexual Relations"? 43:18
3. What Is Inflation? | Econ With Jac 08:22
4. What Happened In Roe Versus Wade? 39:03
5. The Panama Canal Is Actually Interesting? 34:25

Help us improve the quality of our podcast by contributing to our Patreon:
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Show Notes

What’s the most insidious way to stop the continuation of the human race? Forced sterilization would be our guess. It may seem like a thing of the past but you’ll be terrified to know that practices of force sterilization and the eugenics movement lasted well into the 70’s for the United States. In our FIRST Guest episode EVER, our friend Indeep takes us on a journey through the history of forced sterilization, who it targeted, the resistance, and how long it lasted.

Sources:

• https://www.history.com/news/the-father-of-modern-gynecology-performed-shocking-experiments-on-slaves 
• https://www.rochester.edu/newscenter/native-americans-government-authorities-and-the-reproductive-politics-403792/ 
• https://www.history.com/news/how-boarding-schools-tried-to-kill-the-indian-through-assimilation
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade 
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States_by_state 
• https://www.thoughtco.com/forced-sterilization-in-united-states-721308

https://www.panoramas.pitt.edu/health-and-society/dark-history-forced-sterilization-latina-women

Transcript

0:00:00.320,0:00:04.720
hello everybody and welcome to another

0:00:02.560,0:00:08.240
episode of how did we not know that

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i’m nat i’m jack and i’m in deep

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yay yay

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hey everyone welcome we are really

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excited we have our first guest ever

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today

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she was our very good friend in deep in

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deep and i actually met while we were

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studying abroad in senegal

0:00:22.640,0:00:27.199
so she’s going to present today on a

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topic of her choosing

0:00:27.199,0:00:32.960
take it away indeed okay so

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a fun thing is that neither jack nor nat

0:00:32.960,0:00:35.040
know my topic

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so i’m really curious to see how they

0:00:35.040,0:00:39.200
react um so

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to open i have a question what is your

0:00:39.200,0:00:46.160
guys’s worst nightmare

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if i had to give like blood repeatedly

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like over and over and over okay okay

0:00:49.600,0:00:56.399
and that i’m really scared

0:00:53.360,0:00:58.800
of like open spaces like the ocean i’m

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really scared of the ocean actually

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that’s interesting yeah so mine

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we’re gonna use it against us

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can you imagine um i feel like you’re

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not on topic at all

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go ahead mine would

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probably be having unanesthetized

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gynecological surgery

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without my consent

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okay so the title of my presentation

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is going to was going to be i was

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between reproductive politics

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or how women’s bodies were the original

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battlegrounds of how men

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especially american colonizers and slave

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owners gain and kept their power and

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influence

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wow that’s heavy girl

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you guys i don’t come here to play i

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come here to let you know

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you know to spill the pee and the tea is

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going to be spilled

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this is a rabbit hole and i’m sorry

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you’re not going gonna be the same once

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you come

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out and i hope that’s okay oh my gosh

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yes i feel like american history just

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like the more i study it the more i’m

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like yikes

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um and i also think it’s funny that like

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they’re just these little holes there’s

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these little things that are just like

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oh we never even thought about that

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and it’s actually like this huge problem

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that still affects people

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um but something i also want to

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highlight before i kind of get like into

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the um stick of

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the presentation is um how

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the resistance to these is sometimes

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documented and i really want to like

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highlight it as we go through

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because i don’t want to like erase the

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stories of the victims and dehumanize

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them

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um and so i want to kind of highlight

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that

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these are people who exercise their will

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when they could and they often did so

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like against really scary odds and

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really powerful institutions and forces

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so as we’re like going through this

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we’re gonna just

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highlight the resistance and highlight

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the fact that these were people you know

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it all starts with our guy

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james marion sims aka

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the father of modern gynecology and i

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feel like we all just feel weird about

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there

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being someone with the title the father

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of modern gynecology right

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that’s upsetting since practice medicine

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at a time when treating women was

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considered

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distasteful and rarely done and you know

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no one surprised

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and he invented the vaginal speculum

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which is a tool used for dilation and

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examination

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and are all thinking oh okay cool cool

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um and

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he also pioneered a surgical technique

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to repair

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vesico vaginal fistula which is a common

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19th century complication of childbirth

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in which okay get ready a tear happens

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between the uterus and the bladder and

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that causes

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constant pain and urine leakage and so

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this still happens today in developing

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countries and it’s really avoidable

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and it literally happens when a baby is

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stuck

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for too long and they like wear a hole

0:04:02.480,0:04:06.799
next to your vagina and it can happen

0:04:04.159,0:04:07.120
like next to your bladder or next to

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your

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literal anus and it causes like leaking

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and

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i don’t know about this gonna happen but

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when it happens it happens and it’s a

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really big problem like in developing

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countries because people who have this

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problem

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are often like um first of all the baby

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usually suffocates and dies

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um i know because they’re in there for

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days like that’s how long it takes right

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and um also like they’re often

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um what’s the word when you’re like

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excommunicated like thrown out of the

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tribe thrown out of the

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village and i know they can’t have a

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baby

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because it’s stuck because their baby

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died and because they smell

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bad because after this happens they like

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it’s just really gross

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you know and they like have because it’s

0:04:47.759,0:04:51.520
leaking okay

0:04:49.199,0:04:52.639
exactly and so i think they think of it

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as like a curse

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or sometimes it’s just like kind of

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distasteful to have around and they’re

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just kind of like

0:04:56.960,0:05:00.320
banished the woman and this is like

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really first of all this is really

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easily repaired by surgery just some

0:05:01.840,0:05:05.280
stitches you know

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and okay i don’t want to reduce that i

0:05:05.280,0:05:08.840
don’t know how it’s prepared i’m

0:05:06.160,0:05:10.240
assuming it’s just

0:05:08.840,0:05:12.800
bitches but

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also um it’s really preventable like if

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you just have something kind of take the

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baby out

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you could do a c-section like there’s a

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lot of ways to like get the baby to come

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out now

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but you know if you just don’t have any

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resources sorry what year is this that

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he’s

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inventing this do you know so he’s

0:05:28.320,0:05:33.240
inventing this he was born in 1813

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so i think he was inventing this in the

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1830s

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1840s maybe cool wait question

0:05:37.600,0:05:40.960
sorry he’s american so the father of

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gynecology

0:05:40.960,0:05:46.320
is american yeah okay and he was born in

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lancaster county south carolina

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in 1813 um and he entered the medical

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profession when doctors didn’t undergo

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the same rigorous coursework and

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training they do today

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after interning with a doctor and taking

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a three-month course

0:05:58.479,0:06:01.759
and studying for a year at jefferson

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medical college

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he began his practice he later relocated

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to montgomery county

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alabama seeking a fresh start after the

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death

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of his first two patients

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no the third time’s a charm right just

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gotta move to alabama so they don’t have

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that third try

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no the father of the father of modern

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gynecology

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so it was in montgomery that sims built

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his reputation among rich white

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plantation owners by treating their

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human property

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article does not play um according to

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vanessa gamble

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university professor of medical

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humanities at gw george washington

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university

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since this practice was deeply rooted in

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the slave trade

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and while most healthcare took place in

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the plantation some stubborn cases were

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brought to physicians like sims

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who patched up enslaved workers so they

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could produce and reproduce for their

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masters again

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otherwise they were useless to their

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owners and this kind of brings up this

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concept of soundness

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um being a sound a meant that you could

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produce and reproduce so men could

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produce and women could reproduce for

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women having fistula made them less

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sound because they couldn’t really

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reproduce as much

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it goes into the whole slavery and child

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bearing which i’m going to get into

0:07:18.240,0:07:21.919
but just to finish on our guy james

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marion sims

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there’s a lot more on him if you’re

0:07:23.199,0:07:25.919
interested he started like the first

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women’s hospital

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killed a bunch of people saved some

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people you know

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and he had i think three statues of him

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that are starting to come down so

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there was one of his statues was

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literally in central park

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opposite the new york academy of

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medicine in new york city

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and this was removed on april 17 2018

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and its current plaque

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will be replaced by one that educates

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the public on the origins of the

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monument

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and the controversial non-consensual

0:07:54.960,0:07:58.720
medical experiments he

0:07:56.240,0:07:59.919
used on women of color mostly enslaved

0:07:58.720,0:08:01.919
black women

0:07:59.919,0:08:03.520
the names and histories of three known

0:08:01.919,0:08:05.440
women whose bodies were used in the name

0:08:03.520,0:08:07.520
of medical and scientific advancement

0:08:05.440,0:08:09.120
by the doctor their names are lucy

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anarca and betsy will take their

0:08:09.120,0:08:11.919
rightful

0:08:09.840,0:08:15.680
place on the new plaque and i will also

0:08:11.919,0:08:18.160
mention he did his experiments on slaves

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without anesthesia because it wasn’t

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invented at the time

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and also because i know and also because

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they didn’t think that black bodies felt

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pain the same way that white bodies did

0:08:29.120,0:08:32.880
which is still a myth that happens to

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this day like to this day black people

0:08:32.880,0:08:37.760
are um given less anesthesia

0:08:35.919,0:08:39.680
on average than like their white

0:08:37.760,0:08:40.000
counterparts because they believe that

0:08:39.680,0:08:42.959
black

0:08:40.000,0:08:45.839
people somehow feel less pain and that’s

0:08:42.959,0:08:48.720
james marion sims

0:08:45.839,0:08:49.279
jeez oh my god that’s so upsetting that

0:08:48.720,0:08:52.800
like

0:08:49.279,0:08:54.399
not only is he this awful person

0:08:52.800,0:08:55.839
he killed all these women and like none

0:08:54.399,0:08:58.160
of his surgeries were really consensual

0:08:55.839,0:08:59.760
but how did he get all these statues

0:08:58.160,0:09:02.399
like

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i have no idea what i do know is that i

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don’t know like he

0:09:03.279,0:09:06.399
started doing surgeries on white women

0:09:04.959,0:09:08.240
and he did make a lot of advancements

0:09:06.399,0:09:10.959
because before nobody would even

0:09:08.240,0:09:12.959
like delve into women’s reproductive

0:09:10.959,0:09:14.160
like they were like growth you know

0:09:12.959,0:09:16.000
and then he started doing surgeries on

0:09:14.160,0:09:17.839
white women with anesthesia

0:09:16.000,0:09:19.839
because you know handily it was invented

0:09:17.839,0:09:23.440
and also you know white women feel pain

0:09:19.839,0:09:25.680
apparently um who knew so

0:09:23.440,0:09:27.279
not me that white side of me doesn’t

0:09:25.680,0:09:29.839
feel pain so i don’t know what you’re

0:09:27.279,0:09:29.839
talking about

0:09:30.640,0:09:34.480
so i can just delve into slavery and

0:09:33.600,0:09:36.640
child bearing

0:09:34.480,0:09:38.640
because you know this is all this

0:09:36.640,0:09:40.880
research was just a hole that i just dug

0:09:38.640,0:09:42.640
deeper and deeper into it just doesn’t

0:09:40.880,0:09:43.839
end everything that i’m going to say is

0:09:42.640,0:09:46.640
accepted

0:09:43.839,0:09:48.640
from birthing a slave motherhood and

0:09:46.640,0:09:49.440
medicine in the antebellum south by

0:09:48.640,0:09:52.240
murray

0:09:49.440,0:09:53.279
marie jenkins schwartz so here’s like a

0:09:52.240,0:09:55.760
little bit of background

0:09:53.279,0:09:57.279
um as of 1808 congress ended the

0:09:55.760,0:09:58.720
nation’s participation in the

0:09:57.279,0:10:00.240
international slave trade

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so that means that the only practical

0:10:00.240,0:10:03.120
way of increasing the number of slave

0:10:01.920,0:10:06.240
laborers was through

0:10:03.120,0:10:08.320
new births so if enslaved mothers did

0:10:06.240,0:10:10.079
not bear sufficient numbers of children

0:10:08.320,0:10:11.680
to take the place of aged and dying

0:10:10.079,0:10:12.800
workers the south couldn’t continue as a

0:10:11.680,0:10:15.040
slave society

0:10:12.800,0:10:16.560
and as we know slavery lasted a lot

0:10:15.040,0:10:20.079
longer than 1808

0:10:16.560,0:10:22.640
right so they really made it work

0:10:20.079,0:10:23.360
slave trade ends in 1808 yeah the slave

0:10:22.640,0:10:25.600
like trade

0:10:23.360,0:10:26.560
like the international slave trade ended

0:10:25.600,0:10:29.360
in 1808

0:10:26.560,0:10:30.560
like within we had like 60 yeah 60 years

0:10:29.360,0:10:33.680
and they’re just like

0:10:30.560,0:10:35.839
breeding more slaves now breeding is a

0:10:33.680,0:10:37.680
terrible i’m sorry i even use that word

0:10:35.839,0:10:39.519
like no but that’s a word that’s used

0:10:37.680,0:10:40.160
because it’s like you know it’s not

0:10:39.519,0:10:43.519
humane

0:10:40.160,0:10:45.279
like the way that this is right um

0:10:43.519,0:10:47.519
literally looking at it is like numbers

0:10:45.279,0:10:49.600
like they’re not looking them at

0:10:47.519,0:10:51.440
looking at it as like human beings yeah

0:10:49.600,0:10:54.640
they’re looking at them like livestock

0:10:51.440,0:10:55.120
it’s like literally literally first

0:10:54.640,0:10:57.600
thing

0:10:55.120,0:11:00.240
oh my god but rewards for motherhood

0:10:57.600,0:11:02.880
follow the birth of children for um like

0:11:00.240,0:11:04.480
female slaves to give birth right so

0:11:02.880,0:11:07.040
these included extra clothing

0:11:04.480,0:11:07.680
exemption from harsh punishment and even

0:11:07.040,0:11:10.880
rarely

0:11:07.680,0:11:12.800
rarely rarely freedom um some women were

0:11:10.880,0:11:15.040
able to avoid field or other arduous

0:11:12.800,0:11:16.720
labor as a result of bearing children

0:11:15.040,0:11:18.079
a breeder so these women were called

0:11:16.720,0:11:19.839
breeders

0:11:18.079,0:11:22.560
always fared better than the majority of

0:11:19.839,0:11:24.800
female slaves

0:11:22.560,0:11:25.680
and there were repercussions for

0:11:24.800,0:11:28.079
barrenness

0:11:25.680,0:11:29.040
so young woman who had not demonstrated

0:11:28.079,0:11:31.440
fertility

0:11:29.040,0:11:32.160
faced the possibility of separation from

0:11:31.440,0:11:35.680
family

0:11:32.160,0:11:37.040
as well as additional labor if a married

0:11:35.680,0:11:38.480
couple lived together for long without

0:11:37.040,0:11:41.440
having a baby

0:11:38.480,0:11:44.160
you they could owners would force

0:11:41.440,0:11:47.200
husband and wife to choose new partners

0:11:44.160,0:11:49.200
and um it’s also

0:11:47.200,0:11:51.120
like a former slave his name is henry

0:11:49.200,0:11:53.360
bobbitt maintained that many marriages

0:11:51.120,0:11:55.040
did not last longer than five years

0:11:53.360,0:11:56.639
because if no children were born within

0:11:55.040,0:11:58.800
five years husbands and wives were

0:11:56.639,0:12:01.519
expected to find other spouses

0:11:58.800,0:12:03.440
so from the standpoint of enslaved women

0:12:01.519,0:12:05.440
the slave owners fluoride into the

0:12:03.440,0:12:07.920
scientific management of their bodies

0:12:05.440,0:12:09.120
aka just like interest in their

0:12:07.920,0:12:11.519
reproductive systems

0:12:09.120,0:12:12.959
represented something beyond benevolence

0:12:11.519,0:12:16.079
i think not of a third

0:12:12.959,0:12:17.279
surprise um it was an effort to decrease

0:12:16.079,0:12:19.360
the importance of

0:12:17.279,0:12:21.279
women’s community and to substitute the

0:12:19.360,0:12:22.480
ways of white men for those of black

0:12:21.279,0:12:23.920
women and i found that like really

0:12:22.480,0:12:24.399
interesting just the way that was worded

0:12:23.920,0:12:26.079
it’s like

0:12:24.399,0:12:27.920
that’s literally what’s happening but

0:12:26.079,0:12:29.200
white men trying to control

0:12:27.920,0:12:31.040
trying to make like black women’s

0:12:29.200,0:12:32.560
reproductive systems work for them the

0:12:31.040,0:12:33.440
women struggle to assert their own

0:12:32.560,0:12:35.920
customs so

0:12:33.440,0:12:37.440
rather than acquiescing and slaveholders

0:12:35.920,0:12:38.480
demands that they bear as many children

0:12:37.440,0:12:40.320
as possible

0:12:38.480,0:12:42.240
enslaved women attempted to regulate

0:12:40.320,0:12:43.760
child bearing to accord with their own

0:12:42.240,0:12:45.360
notions of the proper timing and

0:12:43.760,0:12:47.200
frequency of motherhood

0:12:45.360,0:12:49.040
in resisting the dominion of white men

0:12:47.200,0:12:50.480
in this regard black women cast

0:12:49.040,0:12:51.680
themselves essential actors in the

0:12:50.480,0:12:53.760
unfolding drama

0:12:51.680,0:12:55.519
that constituted slave life and culture

0:12:53.760,0:12:57.279
in the antebellum south so essentially

0:12:55.519,0:12:59.040
like the fact that these women like

0:12:57.279,0:13:00.959
wouldn’t always have children whenever

0:12:59.040,0:13:03.279
it was demanded really really shaped the

0:13:00.959,0:13:05.200
narrative of like how slavery continued

0:13:03.279,0:13:06.639
because as we know like it is only

0:13:05.200,0:13:07.440
through these women that slavery could

0:13:06.639,0:13:09.680
continue

0:13:07.440,0:13:11.200
i’m like speechless just because like oh

0:13:09.680,0:13:12.800
my god like you’re literally like

0:13:11.200,0:13:15.519
manipulating

0:13:12.800,0:13:16.560
and like forcing yourself like on every

0:13:15.519,0:13:18.880
aspect of

0:13:16.560,0:13:20.720
like slaves like on their bodies and

0:13:18.880,0:13:24.079
like women especially like that’s so

0:13:20.720,0:13:25.440
violating and like dehumanizing and like

0:13:24.079,0:13:28.720
i just can’t even

0:13:25.440,0:13:32.399
i can’t even like imagine

0:13:28.720,0:13:32.959
how like painful and just how horrifying

0:13:32.399,0:13:35.519
and

0:13:32.959,0:13:37.440
disgusting that is like it’s really

0:13:35.519,0:13:40.000
upsetting to hear but i don’t know

0:13:37.440,0:13:41.839
like yeah and like just the pain of

0:13:40.000,0:13:42.800
child birth and child bearing and

0:13:41.839,0:13:44.800
everything you have to go through with

0:13:42.800,0:13:46.959
that and then the bond that like

0:13:44.800,0:13:48.160
a mothers feel with like their children

0:13:46.959,0:13:49.440
and then your child

0:13:48.160,0:13:51.279
is literally just being treated as

0:13:49.440,0:13:52.480
livestock i know i’m sure like

0:13:51.279,0:13:54.480
i’ve read things where they get

0:13:52.480,0:13:56.240
separated at birth and like the child

0:13:54.480,0:13:56.639
gets sold maybe to another slave owner

0:13:56.240,0:14:00.079
it’s

0:13:56.639,0:14:01.600
like horrific yeah it is crazy

0:14:00.079,0:14:03.120
it’s crazy to think about like whatever

0:14:01.600,0:14:05.600
children you have like you’re not going

0:14:03.120,0:14:07.839
to have any rights to them

0:14:05.600,0:14:09.440
yeah and literally like just being

0:14:07.839,0:14:12.079
thought of as like

0:14:09.440,0:14:13.920
an experiment and like something like a

0:14:12.079,0:14:15.920
test subject like oh that’s so

0:14:13.920,0:14:17.600
disgusting and that’s so scary like i’m

0:14:15.920,0:14:19.920
just like even like giving

0:14:17.600,0:14:22.320
birth to child like like any woman in

0:14:19.920,0:14:24.160
this time i know

0:14:22.320,0:14:26.240
absolutely horrifying like i can’t even

0:14:24.160,0:14:27.920
imagine i’m like so scared

0:14:26.240,0:14:30.240
like i would be so scared either way and

0:14:27.920,0:14:32.000
then in this setting especially like

0:14:30.240,0:14:33.920
oh my gosh i wonder how many like are

0:14:32.000,0:14:36.240
there any statistics and like how many

0:14:33.920,0:14:37.600
like fatalities like how many women died

0:14:36.240,0:14:39.839
because of this although i guess this

0:14:37.600,0:14:40.240
probably wasn’t documented it’s hard to

0:14:39.839,0:14:42.880
tell

0:14:40.240,0:14:44.959
because i don’t know how much they would

0:14:42.880,0:14:46.959
have like actually documented

0:14:44.959,0:14:48.480
you know other than like to suit their

0:14:46.959,0:14:50.800
own needs you know

0:14:48.480,0:14:51.600
yeah no history is like documented by

0:14:50.800,0:14:53.760
the winners

0:14:51.600,0:14:55.360
as they say and like especially they’re

0:14:53.760,0:14:56.560
not teaching slaves how to read and

0:14:55.360,0:14:58.000
write it’s hard to find any

0:14:56.560,0:14:59.680
documentation at all i’m actually

0:14:58.000,0:15:01.279
impressed that there’s at least

0:14:59.680,0:15:03.360
documentation

0:15:01.279,0:15:05.120
on this so we know about it i know it’s

0:15:03.360,0:15:07.600
crazy i think that a lot of it also

0:15:05.120,0:15:08.320
honestly came from like the descendants

0:15:07.600,0:15:10.720
of like

0:15:08.320,0:15:12.560
slaves because a lot of this was like

0:15:10.720,0:15:13.120
told through stories and i think it’s

0:15:12.560,0:15:14.880
just like

0:15:13.120,0:15:16.320
i don’t know even we’re gonna go like

0:15:14.880,0:15:18.160
through a few more subjects but even

0:15:16.320,0:15:20.160
just like the way that like

0:15:18.160,0:15:21.680
people are researching these things and

0:15:20.160,0:15:23.040
it’s so important to research it makes

0:15:21.680,0:15:24.800
me have such respect because i feel like

0:15:23.040,0:15:26.399
this is so traumatizing to research

0:15:24.800,0:15:27.680
about like write about every day you

0:15:26.399,0:15:29.680
know

0:15:27.680,0:15:31.920
and very painful for them to like relive

0:15:29.680,0:15:34.639
those experiences to share the story

0:15:31.920,0:15:35.519
to that for that to be documented yeah

0:15:34.639,0:15:37.680
that’s so true

0:15:35.519,0:15:38.959
on to the next phase and so we don’t

0:15:37.680,0:15:41.200
have another question for you

0:15:38.959,0:15:43.040
you two lovely young humans

0:15:41.200,0:15:44.880
[Laughter]

0:15:43.040,0:15:46.639
when you think of the 1970s what do you

0:15:44.880,0:15:49.759
think of i think of like the hip

0:15:46.639,0:15:50.480
hippies and like i think of the vietnam

0:15:49.759,0:15:53.279
war

0:15:50.480,0:15:54.560
and like there’s a lot of like unrest

0:15:53.279,0:15:57.120
and people are

0:15:54.560,0:15:59.120
upset i think of like the start of the

0:15:57.120,0:16:01.120
end of like social darwinism

0:15:59.120,0:16:02.399
and like the end of the eugenics

0:16:01.120,0:16:05.839
practices well

0:16:02.399,0:16:09.759
so we so we believe yeah jack is ready

0:16:05.839,0:16:11.279
she knows how this goes

0:16:09.759,0:16:12.880
it’s because i’m studying the gilded age

0:16:11.279,0:16:14.240
right now so i’m like learning about

0:16:12.880,0:16:15.120
everything that was put in place and

0:16:14.240,0:16:16.880
then it’s like

0:16:15.120,0:16:19.120
ending in the 70s so i just want to

0:16:16.880,0:16:21.360
request you guys on roe v wade happened

0:16:19.120,0:16:23.360
in 1973

0:16:21.360,0:16:25.440
and it was a landmark decision of the us

0:16:23.360,0:16:27.440
supreme court in which the court ruled

0:16:25.440,0:16:29.120
that the constitution of the united

0:16:27.440,0:16:29.920
states protects a pregnant woman’s

0:16:29.120,0:16:32.320
liberty to

0:16:29.920,0:16:35.199
choose to have an abortion without

0:16:32.320,0:16:37.839
excessive government restrictions

0:16:35.199,0:16:39.360
some hot tea and so we can get into some

0:16:37.839,0:16:40.240
like in the background there was this

0:16:39.360,0:16:43.360
woman

0:16:40.240,0:16:45.120
um and her pseudonym was jane roe and

0:16:43.360,0:16:46.800
she became pregnant with her third child

0:16:45.120,0:16:49.120
and she won an abortion

0:16:46.800,0:16:51.199
um but she lived in texas where abortion

0:16:49.120,0:16:54.959
was illegal and so

0:16:51.199,0:16:57.120
she filed the lawsuit um on her behalf

0:16:54.959,0:17:00.560
in the u.s federal court against henry

0:16:57.120,0:17:02.959
wade who was her local district attorney

0:17:00.560,0:17:04.640
and so basically they heard the case

0:17:02.959,0:17:05.520
they ruled in her favor and then texted

0:17:04.640,0:17:07.199
appeal to

0:17:05.520,0:17:08.640
the u.s supreme court which agreed to

0:17:07.199,0:17:12.160
hear the case and

0:17:08.640,0:17:13.120
they appeal or they ruled in her favor

0:17:12.160,0:17:15.760
which meant that

0:17:13.120,0:17:17.760
federally abortion is legal abortion in

0:17:15.760,0:17:20.160
the united states is legal

0:17:17.760,0:17:21.919
nationally but abortion laws are also

0:17:20.160,0:17:23.600
like under state jurisdiction

0:17:21.919,0:17:25.039
but technically like it has to be

0:17:23.600,0:17:27.679
illegal in all states but it’s

0:17:25.039,0:17:29.200
regulated by the states yeah so i kind

0:17:27.679,0:17:29.840
of wanted to highlight this because i

0:17:29.200,0:17:32.240
felt like

0:17:29.840,0:17:33.760
um this is like the struggle that we

0:17:32.240,0:17:34.480
hear about but this is a struggle of

0:17:33.760,0:17:36.160
white women

0:17:34.480,0:17:38.000
as i’m gonna kind of like go into more

0:17:36.160,0:17:41.120
like the struggle was different for

0:17:38.000,0:17:43.200
different populations of women of color

0:17:41.120,0:17:44.720
and it’s kind of crazy how different the

0:17:43.200,0:17:45.679
struggles like they were just not even

0:17:44.720,0:17:47.679
the same

0:17:45.679,0:17:49.840
like not even the same issue and we’re

0:17:47.679,0:17:51.520
going to start with indigenous women

0:17:49.840,0:17:53.919
i’m going to start with with a fun

0:17:51.520,0:17:56.799
statistic in the 1970s

0:17:53.919,0:17:57.039
doctors in the united states sterilized

0:17:56.799,0:18:00.080
an

0:17:57.039,0:18:02.240
estimated 25 to 42 percent

0:18:00.080,0:18:04.480
of native american women of childbearing

0:18:02.240,0:18:08.400
age some as young as 15.

0:18:04.480,0:18:10.320
that number is insane crazy

0:18:08.400,0:18:12.799
i don’t even how was did you find out

0:18:10.320,0:18:15.200
anything like on the process was it like

0:18:12.799,0:18:17.280
were they using like armed forces to

0:18:15.200,0:18:18.000
like pull women from their homes what

0:18:17.280,0:18:19.919
was it

0:18:18.000,0:18:21.679
so what they would do is like they would

0:18:19.919,0:18:24.240
women would go in

0:18:21.679,0:18:25.679
for you know maybe like a procedure

0:18:24.240,0:18:27.600
maybe like a checkup often

0:18:25.679,0:18:28.960
just like giving birth and then while

0:18:27.600,0:18:29.760
they were giving birth it would be a

0:18:28.960,0:18:33.600
quick

0:18:29.760,0:18:36.880
procedure that was yeah and also

0:18:33.600,0:18:37.600
without their consent consent even

0:18:36.880,0:18:38.960
knowing

0:18:37.600,0:18:40.880
sometimes it would happen like

0:18:38.960,0:18:42.400
technically with their consent but it

0:18:40.880,0:18:43.600
was like they didn’t know like they were

0:18:42.400,0:18:45.360
just told it was birth control they

0:18:43.600,0:18:46.720
didn’t know that it was permanent they

0:18:45.360,0:18:48.720
didn’t know what it really meant

0:18:46.720,0:18:51.440
you know although the practice is

0:18:48.720,0:18:54.240
primarily associated with nazi germany

0:18:51.440,0:18:55.360
north korea and other oppressive regimes

0:18:54.240,0:18:57.200
the us has had its

0:18:55.360,0:18:58.880
share of four sterilization laws that

0:18:57.200,0:18:59.360
fit with the eugenic culture of the

0:18:58.880,0:19:01.280
early

0:18:59.360,0:19:03.360
20th century and i wanted to find

0:19:01.280,0:19:05.039
eugenics real quick it’s a science that

0:19:03.360,0:19:07.440
tries to improve

0:19:05.039,0:19:09.039
the human race by controlling which

0:19:07.440,0:19:10.880
people become parents

0:19:09.039,0:19:12.480
which is a great law if i’ve ever heard

0:19:10.880,0:19:17.120
one

0:19:12.480,0:19:18.960
um you do not want a voice bit of you

0:19:17.120,0:19:20.320
saying

0:19:18.960,0:19:22.320
it’s gonna come back when you have a

0:19:20.320,0:19:22.880
campaign one day i need to be more

0:19:22.320,0:19:25.919
careful

0:19:22.880,0:19:29.200
but also i’m like literally sweating

0:19:25.919,0:19:30.960
so funny how crazy that is okay

0:19:29.200,0:19:34.000
so here’s the timeline of some of the

0:19:30.960,0:19:35.919
more notable events from 1849 and to the

0:19:34.000,0:19:39.919
last sterilization performed in

0:19:35.919,0:19:44.559
jared for 1981. 1981

0:19:39.919,0:19:47.760
so uh recent great reason

0:19:44.559,0:19:49.840
so in 1849 gordon

0:19:47.760,0:19:51.760
lindscum so he was a famed texas

0:19:49.840,0:19:53.520
biologist and physician

0:19:51.760,0:19:55.280
and he proposed a bill mandating the

0:19:53.520,0:19:57.120
eugenic sterilization of the mentally

0:19:55.280,0:19:58.880
handicapped and others whose genes he

0:19:57.120,0:20:01.039
deemed undesirable so although the

0:19:58.880,0:20:02.720
legislation was never sponsored or

0:20:01.039,0:20:04.559
brought up for a vote it was the first

0:20:02.720,0:20:06.240
serious attempt in u.s history to use

0:20:04.559,0:20:06.880
forced sterilization for eugenic

0:20:06.240,0:20:09.039
purposes

0:20:06.880,0:20:10.480
between now and 1907 there were a few

0:20:09.039,0:20:12.000
other attempts at passing a forced

0:20:10.480,0:20:13.840
sterilization law but none of them

0:20:12.000,0:20:16.799
passed um and then 1907

0:20:13.840,0:20:18.960
indiana um ohio’s neighbor for you you

0:20:16.799,0:20:20.000
who do not know ohio state university

0:20:18.960,0:20:22.640
where we all

0:20:20.000,0:20:23.679
go and went you know right next to

0:20:22.640,0:20:26.080
indiana

0:20:23.679,0:20:27.760
in 1907 indiana became the first state

0:20:26.080,0:20:29.919
in the country to successfully pass a

0:20:27.760,0:20:33.200
mandatory force sterilization law

0:20:29.919,0:20:35.039
impacting the feeble-minded a term used

0:20:33.200,0:20:35.919
at the time to refer to the mentally

0:20:35.039,0:20:37.679
handicapped

0:20:35.919,0:20:39.120
okay i really did not realize like

0:20:37.679,0:20:40.640
because i have like looked into

0:20:39.120,0:20:42.159
for sterilization a little bit but like

0:20:40.640,0:20:42.960
i didn’t realize it like there were laws

0:20:42.159,0:20:44.000
being passed about

0:20:42.960,0:20:47.039
i always thought it was just kind of

0:20:44.000,0:20:49.200
like shady like yeah like on the dl

0:20:47.039,0:20:50.240
yeah that’s literally that’s horrifying

0:20:49.200,0:20:53.200
that there was a

0:20:50.240,0:20:54.400
literal law so in 1909 california and

0:20:53.200,0:20:56.640
washington both

0:20:54.400,0:20:58.960
passed mandatory sterilization laws in

0:20:56.640,0:21:01.919
1927 the u.s supreme court

0:20:58.960,0:21:03.600
ruled in bucks rebel that laws mandating

0:21:01.919,0:21:05.280
the sterilization of the mentally

0:21:03.600,0:21:06.720
handicapped did not violate the

0:21:05.280,0:21:10.000
constitution

0:21:06.720,0:21:12.159
and just as oliver wendell holmes

0:21:10.000,0:21:13.360
made an explicitly eugenic argument in

0:21:12.159,0:21:15.440
writing for the majority

0:21:13.360,0:21:17.840
it is better for all the world if

0:21:15.440,0:21:19.600
instead of waiting to execute degenerate

0:21:17.840,0:21:21.360
offspring for crime

0:21:19.600,0:21:22.640
or to let them starve for their

0:21:21.360,0:21:24.799
imbecility

0:21:22.640,0:21:26.159
society can prevent those who are

0:21:24.799,0:21:30.080
manifestly unfit

0:21:26.159,0:21:32.240
from continuing their kind oh my god

0:21:30.080,0:21:33.520
straight out of sparta where they used

0:21:32.240,0:21:36.720
to leave like

0:21:33.520,0:21:37.760
handicapped out to die by themselves or

0:21:36.720,0:21:39.280
like the sick

0:21:37.760,0:21:41.679
literally that’s insane and we’ve talked

0:21:39.280,0:21:44.159
about justice oliver wendell holmes

0:21:41.679,0:21:45.200
in our is it free speech or espionage

0:21:44.159,0:21:47.200
episode and like

0:21:45.200,0:21:48.640
when i was doing research like none of

0:21:47.200,0:21:49.280
this came up like you they were just

0:21:48.640,0:21:51.760
like oh

0:21:49.280,0:21:53.120
he’s a really influential judge like

0:21:51.760,0:21:56.720
yeah probably because he

0:21:53.120,0:21:59.280
literally like said that oh my god like

0:21:56.720,0:22:00.000
you’re crazy okay so this this next fact

0:21:59.280,0:22:03.039
is fun

0:22:00.000,0:22:05.200
in 1936 nazi propaganda

0:22:03.039,0:22:06.159
defended germany’s force sterilization

0:22:05.200,0:22:08.400
program

0:22:06.159,0:22:10.320
by citing the us as an ally in the

0:22:08.400,0:22:12.240
eugenic movement

0:22:10.320,0:22:13.679
um world war ii and the atrocities

0:22:12.240,0:22:14.240
committed by the nazi government would

0:22:13.679,0:22:16.240
rapidly

0:22:14.240,0:22:18.159
rapidly change u.s attitudes towards

0:22:16.240,0:22:19.919
eugenics i guess that’s what it takes i

0:22:18.159,0:22:22.720
don’t know

0:22:19.919,0:22:24.159
okay t um actually nazi germany took a

0:22:22.720,0:22:26.799
lot of our practices

0:22:24.159,0:22:28.000
as an inspiration for their practices i

0:22:26.799,0:22:30.720
don’t know if you guys know like the

0:22:28.000,0:22:32.000
gasoline baths at the border between

0:22:30.720,0:22:34.159
mexico

0:22:32.000,0:22:35.120
yeah at the border between mexico they

0:22:34.159,0:22:37.440
would like bathe

0:22:35.120,0:22:39.120
um mexican immigrants who were waiting

0:22:37.440,0:22:40.880
to like get citizenship

0:22:39.120,0:22:42.400
they’d bathe them in gasoline to clean

0:22:40.880,0:22:44.240
them those cleaning chambers were

0:22:42.400,0:22:45.600
inspiration for the gas chambers in nazi

0:22:44.240,0:22:46.559
germany that’s a whole i’m probably

0:22:45.600,0:22:48.320
gonna have to cut this out because

0:22:46.559,0:22:50.080
that’s a whole another episode and can

0:22:48.320,0:22:51.360
of worms but yeah that stuff happened oh

0:22:50.080,0:22:54.559
my god

0:22:51.360,0:22:58.559
that’s crazy i had no idea

0:22:54.559,0:23:01.760
yeah continue please

0:22:58.559,0:23:03.919
um so the nixon administration um

0:23:01.760,0:23:06.799
dramatically increased medicaid-funded

0:23:03.919,0:23:09.840
sterilization of low-income americans

0:23:06.799,0:23:11.679
primarily those of color um while these

0:23:09.840,0:23:14.080
sterilizations were

0:23:11.679,0:23:16.080
voluntary as a matter of policy

0:23:14.080,0:23:17.919
anecdotal evidence later suggested that

0:23:16.080,0:23:18.640
they were often involuntary as a matter

0:23:17.919,0:23:20.720
of practice

0:23:18.640,0:23:22.000
patients were frequently misinformed or

0:23:20.720,0:23:23.280
left uninformed regarding

0:23:22.000,0:23:25.120
the nature of the proceedings that

0:23:23.280,0:23:27.200
they’d agreed to undergo none of us are

0:23:25.120,0:23:29.440
surprised so in 1979

0:23:27.200,0:23:31.360
a survey conducted by family planning

0:23:29.440,0:23:33.840
perspectives found that approximately

0:23:31.360,0:23:36.000
70 percent of american hospitals failed

0:23:33.840,0:23:38.000
to adequately follow the us department

0:23:36.000,0:23:39.760
of health and human services guidelines

0:23:38.000,0:23:40.880
regarding informed consent in cases of

0:23:39.760,0:23:42.320
sterilization

0:23:40.880,0:23:44.720
i think the only thing that’s surprising

0:23:42.320,0:23:45.840
to us is that there was guidelines on

0:23:44.720,0:23:47.520
sterilization

0:23:45.840,0:23:50.240
i think we’re like this just doesn’t

0:23:47.520,0:23:52.080
make sense and then in 1981 oregon

0:23:50.240,0:23:53.760
performed the last week of fourth

0:23:52.080,0:23:55.360
sterilization in u.s history

0:23:53.760,0:23:56.880
crazy that it was oregon and like

0:23:55.360,0:23:57.440
california and washington who like

0:23:56.880,0:24:00.080
really

0:23:57.440,0:24:03.279
stand out it’s also america we all got

0:24:00.080,0:24:07.279
we’re all in it together like

0:24:03.279,0:24:08.799
she’s right okay so that was a brief

0:24:07.279,0:24:10.720
history of the

0:24:08.799,0:24:12.400
a brief overview of the history of force

0:24:10.720,0:24:13.440
sterilization in the u.s and now let’s

0:24:12.400,0:24:15.840
go back to

0:24:13.440,0:24:17.919
indigenous americans in the 1970s

0:24:15.840,0:24:18.640
doctors in the united states sterilized

0:24:17.919,0:24:21.279
and estimated

0:24:18.640,0:24:23.600
25 to 42 percent native american women

0:24:21.279,0:24:25.120
of childbearing age some as young as 15.

0:24:23.600,0:24:26.799
so the sterilizations

0:24:25.120,0:24:28.559
subsidized by federal government and

0:24:26.799,0:24:29.919
often undertaken without the consent are

0:24:28.559,0:24:31.760
under great direct

0:24:29.919,0:24:33.200
marks the culmination of a long history

0:24:31.760,0:24:34.960
of efforts by

0:24:33.200,0:24:36.480
federal and local authorities to manage

0:24:34.960,0:24:37.360
the reproductive lives of native

0:24:36.480,0:24:38.960
families

0:24:37.360,0:24:40.880
and this is explained by brianna

0:24:38.960,0:24:42.400
theobald and she’s an assistant

0:24:40.880,0:24:44.080
professor of history at the university

0:24:42.400,0:24:45.919
of rochester

0:24:44.080,0:24:47.440
and her new book reproduction on the

0:24:45.919,0:24:49.360
reservation pregnancy

0:24:47.440,0:24:50.640
childbirth and colonialism in the long

0:24:49.360,0:24:52.640
20th century

0:24:50.640,0:24:54.400
she says the federal government and

0:24:52.640,0:24:56.240
local authorities have long tried to

0:24:54.400,0:24:58.240
control indigenous families and women’s

0:24:56.240,0:25:00.080
reproduction using tactics such as

0:24:58.240,0:25:01.600
coercive sterilization and the removal

0:25:00.080,0:25:03.840
of indigenous children

0:25:01.600,0:25:06.159
into the white foster care system there

0:25:03.840,0:25:07.360
was this mindset this really fun slogan

0:25:06.159,0:25:09.200
that i feel like

0:25:07.360,0:25:11.440
you guys might have heard um kill the

0:25:09.200,0:25:13.600
indian in him and save the man

0:25:11.440,0:25:15.360
and that’s the mindset um under which

0:25:13.600,0:25:17.200
the us government forced tens of

0:25:15.360,0:25:19.039
thousands of native american children to

0:25:17.200,0:25:20.720
attend assimilation boarding schools in

0:25:19.039,0:25:22.480
the late 19th century

0:25:20.720,0:25:23.520
and it’s like the boring schools we’ve

0:25:22.480,0:25:24.559
heard of and i think it’s interesting

0:25:23.520,0:25:26.400
why have we heard of the boarding

0:25:24.559,0:25:27.440
schools and not like forced civilization

0:25:26.400,0:25:29.360
like i don’t know

0:25:27.440,0:25:30.799
yeah or the adoption yeah and deep

0:25:29.360,0:25:32.480
you’re really hitting like all the good

0:25:30.799,0:25:34.400
topics i feel like every

0:25:32.480,0:25:36.559
little bit you say we could literally

0:25:34.400,0:25:38.559
make into a whole another episode and we

0:25:36.559,0:25:40.240
will because it deserves to be spoken

0:25:38.559,0:25:42.240
about more but yeah the the whole

0:25:40.240,0:25:42.720
adoption era with native americans is

0:25:42.240,0:25:44.960
like

0:25:42.720,0:25:46.880
horrific and then the boarding schools

0:25:44.960,0:25:48.559
lasted do you have like the date of how

0:25:46.880,0:25:49.120
long they lasted but they lasted a very

0:25:48.559,0:25:50.559
long time

0:25:49.120,0:25:53.039
i don’t even think that they were

0:25:50.559,0:25:54.159
completely shut down like by the 70s i

0:25:53.039,0:25:55.679
don’t even know if they’re still shut

0:25:54.159,0:25:57.919
down who knows

0:25:55.679,0:25:59.919
yeah well yeah and like these boarding

0:25:57.919,0:26:01.360
schools are like awful like well first

0:25:59.919,0:26:02.720
of all because like they’re separated

0:26:01.360,0:26:05.600
from their family so that

0:26:02.720,0:26:06.559
in itself is awful but then additionally

0:26:05.600,0:26:08.400
like they’re

0:26:06.559,0:26:09.919
forced to i guess convert to

0:26:08.400,0:26:11.679
christianity and like they’re not

0:26:09.919,0:26:13.440
allowed to speak their native language

0:26:11.679,0:26:15.440
they’re like forced to speak in english

0:26:13.440,0:26:16.159
only so you’re wiping out like people’s

0:26:15.440,0:26:18.400
culture

0:26:16.159,0:26:19.600
and yeah when they return like sometimes

0:26:18.400,0:26:20.960
they can’t even communicate to their

0:26:19.600,0:26:21.440
parents anymore because they don’t

0:26:20.960,0:26:22.799
remember

0:26:21.440,0:26:24.640
they were taken away so young so they

0:26:22.799,0:26:25.120
don’t even remember their like native

0:26:24.640,0:26:27.200
tongue

0:26:25.120,0:26:28.559
and they’re lazy third and a lot of them

0:26:27.200,0:26:29.520
like died in the boarding school just

0:26:28.559,0:26:31.440
because of

0:26:29.520,0:26:33.120
proper care also like i don’t know if

0:26:31.440,0:26:35.039
you’re gonna touch on this later

0:26:33.120,0:26:36.400
but like a lot of what’s happening like

0:26:35.039,0:26:38.559
these boarding schools and the four

0:26:36.400,0:26:41.360
sterilization of indigenous women

0:26:38.559,0:26:42.799
also happened at the same time period in

0:26:41.360,0:26:45.039
canada as well

0:26:42.799,0:26:47.039
i didn’t know that this was actually the

0:26:45.039,0:26:48.799
first time i’d ever heard the term

0:26:47.039,0:26:50.400
force sterilization before was when i

0:26:48.799,0:26:52.640
was in canada like

0:26:50.400,0:26:53.600
working there and the canadian

0:26:52.640,0:26:55.279
parliament were

0:26:53.600,0:26:57.120
drawing up a lot of reports and doing a

0:26:55.279,0:26:59.279
lot of research on the history

0:26:57.120,0:27:01.120
of foreign sterilization of indigenous

0:26:59.279,0:27:01.799
women and there’s a lot of efforts

0:27:01.120,0:27:04.240
towards

0:27:01.799,0:27:06.320
reconciliation about the boarding

0:27:04.240,0:27:09.440
schools and there’s four sterilization

0:27:06.320,0:27:10.320
and like bias of police towards like

0:27:09.440,0:27:13.120
against

0:27:10.320,0:27:14.640
indigenous people of canada and so like

0:27:13.120,0:27:17.039
i remember like when i heard the term

0:27:14.640,0:27:18.559
forces for sterilization for the first

0:27:17.039,0:27:20.720
time like this is like two years ago too

0:27:18.559,0:27:22.480
i was like i never even knew this was a

0:27:20.720,0:27:23.600
thing and then i was like doing all this

0:27:22.480,0:27:25.360
research on it and they’re like oh yeah

0:27:23.600,0:27:27.520
this happened in the u.s too of course

0:27:25.360,0:27:29.279
i’m like this happens up until 1981 so

0:27:27.520,0:27:30.240
it’s not even like oh it was just so

0:27:29.279,0:27:32.320
long ago

0:27:30.240,0:27:34.559
like we thought yeah i just wanted to

0:27:32.320,0:27:36.880
know too that like this is so widespread

0:27:34.559,0:27:38.399
um yeah so yeah and i think that’s

0:27:36.880,0:27:40.240
important to know because i feel like

0:27:38.399,0:27:41.520
a lot of us don’t like i don’t you know

0:27:40.240,0:27:43.360
have even like

0:27:41.520,0:27:44.799
a frame of reference you know like this

0:27:43.360,0:27:46.559
is so new

0:27:44.799,0:27:48.080
just like the concepts that we’re cut

0:27:46.559,0:27:48.960
that we’re covering oh jax was something

0:27:48.080,0:27:52.480
that i wanted to

0:27:48.960,0:27:53.520
touch on oh oh um she said okay so jack

0:27:52.480,0:27:55.600
mentioned how

0:27:53.520,0:27:57.840
this podcast like this episode is

0:27:55.600,0:27:59.520
touching on like a lot of other things

0:27:57.840,0:28:01.360
and i think that kind of speaks to how

0:27:59.520,0:28:02.480
like women were like and women’s like

0:28:01.360,0:28:04.799
reproductive

0:28:02.480,0:28:06.720
like freedoms and reproductive just like

0:28:04.799,0:28:08.880
the control of their reproduction

0:28:06.720,0:28:10.000
was like an underlying factor in a lot

0:28:08.880,0:28:11.600
of other things

0:28:10.000,0:28:13.279
but it was never really spoken about

0:28:11.600,0:28:14.720
right like this is like this underlying

0:28:13.279,0:28:16.000
current this underlying theme that

0:28:14.720,0:28:18.080
happened in like a lot

0:28:16.000,0:28:19.440
of different like periods of us history

0:28:18.080,0:28:20.880
and a lot of different oppressions

0:28:19.440,0:28:22.320
it’s just something that like has never

0:28:20.880,0:28:23.919
been spoken about so when you’re just

0:28:22.320,0:28:24.480
focusing on this you kind of see that it

0:28:23.919,0:28:26.080
threads

0:28:24.480,0:28:27.600
throughout like us history which i think

0:28:26.080,0:28:29.279
is like really interesting and also

0:28:27.600,0:28:30.559
crazy but unsurprising that it’s not

0:28:29.279,0:28:32.240
talked about because it combines

0:28:30.559,0:28:33.279
misogyny like no one likes talking about

0:28:32.240,0:28:35.600
women’s reproduction

0:28:33.279,0:28:37.520
like it’s just i mean no one i love it

0:28:35.600,0:28:38.960
but like

0:28:37.520,0:28:40.640
men have historically been a little

0:28:38.960,0:28:42.000
uncomfortable around it you know

0:28:40.640,0:28:44.080
and it speaks about like other

0:28:42.000,0:28:45.840
marginalized identities being

0:28:44.080,0:28:47.760
different race people of color and

0:28:45.840,0:28:49.279
slaves so i think it’s just like so

0:28:47.760,0:28:51.279
interesting how all of these kind of

0:28:49.279,0:28:53.039
become this really like this

0:28:51.279,0:28:55.600
underpinning oppressive

0:28:53.039,0:28:56.480
ruling like this oppressive policy you

0:28:55.600,0:28:58.480
know

0:28:56.480,0:29:00.720
yeah and i think just like to add on to

0:28:58.480,0:29:02.159
that it shows how history because

0:29:00.720,0:29:04.240
we all have said this before but like

0:29:02.159,0:29:06.399
history is a rabbit hole and

0:29:04.240,0:29:07.919
you cannot like history does affect

0:29:06.399,0:29:09.200
multiple things throughout time and

0:29:07.919,0:29:10.159
that’s why it’s important to study

0:29:09.200,0:29:11.919
history because

0:29:10.159,0:29:14.000
it’s not like these events happen in

0:29:11.919,0:29:15.440
like little pockets one event will like

0:29:14.000,0:29:16.640
lead to another event which leads to

0:29:15.440,0:29:18.480
another event and they

0:29:16.640,0:29:19.840
all throughout generations are going to

0:29:18.480,0:29:22.640
affect future

0:29:19.840,0:29:24.399
people and i kind of want to talk about

0:29:22.640,0:29:26.080
the resistance of native american women

0:29:24.399,0:29:28.000
because we want to always humanize

0:29:26.080,0:29:30.240
people and also just like not take away

0:29:28.000,0:29:34.080
their agency even in the retelling

0:29:30.240,0:29:36.080
so until mid-century mid-1900s there was

0:29:34.080,0:29:37.200
a tremendous resistance in some areas to

0:29:36.080,0:29:39.679
the acceptance of

0:29:37.200,0:29:40.640
government physicians the women might

0:29:39.679,0:29:42.080
tell the field nurse

0:29:40.640,0:29:43.600
yes i’ll come to the hospital and then

0:29:42.080,0:29:45.120
wouldn’t it’s actually quite funny to

0:29:43.600,0:29:46.559
read the documentary record

0:29:45.120,0:29:48.880
these field nurses would write in their

0:29:46.559,0:29:50.240
reports and that they were frustrated

0:29:48.880,0:29:51.919
that women who were basically pregnant

0:29:50.240,0:29:56.880
would just lie to their faces and say

0:29:51.919,0:29:56.880
no i’m not i found that so funny

0:29:57.279,0:30:01.279
in an effort to maintain reproductive

0:29:59.080,0:30:02.720
self-determination to keep reproduction

0:30:01.279,0:30:04.159
in these gendered and

0:30:02.720,0:30:06.799
generational networks where they

0:30:04.159,0:30:08.880
believed it belonged in the 1930s

0:30:06.799,0:30:11.039
susie yellowtail a crow woman took up

0:30:08.880,0:30:12.640
midwifery because of her dissatisfaction

0:30:11.039,0:30:13.840
with her own birthing experience at a

0:30:12.640,0:30:15.200
government hospital

0:30:13.840,0:30:16.880
and another example was the

0:30:15.200,0:30:18.159
establishment of the american indian

0:30:16.880,0:30:20.880
movement or aim

0:30:18.159,0:30:22.799
in 1968 in minneapolis this was an

0:30:20.880,0:30:24.480
inter-tribal group oh you guys have

0:30:22.799,0:30:25.840
you guys know about this yeah nat

0:30:24.480,0:30:27.760
covered aim in the

0:30:25.840,0:30:30.399
um there’s a native american civil

0:30:27.760,0:30:32.080
rights movement episode

0:30:30.399,0:30:34.000
please continue and you so you guys

0:30:32.080,0:30:35.360
already covered it and it’s just one of

0:30:34.000,0:30:36.000
several militant groups that became

0:30:35.360,0:30:37.360
associated

0:30:36.000,0:30:39.440
with what’s called the red power

0:30:37.360,0:30:41.120
movement and in the 1970s native

0:30:39.440,0:30:41.679
activism and resistance became very

0:30:41.120,0:30:43.360
visible

0:30:41.679,0:30:44.640
more widespread and ultimately

0:30:43.360,0:30:45.600
coordinated nationally and

0:30:44.640,0:30:46.960
internationally

0:30:45.600,0:30:48.640
and that’s when native women really

0:30:46.960,0:30:50.559
started to organize independently

0:30:48.640,0:30:52.320
they formed women of all red nations

0:30:50.559,0:30:54.000
warren the group that especially took on

0:30:52.320,0:30:55.600
these sterilization abuses

0:30:54.000,0:30:57.679
under pressure the us government

0:30:55.600,0:31:00.240
accountability office investigated the

0:30:57.679,0:31:02.000
issue in 1976. they released a report

0:31:00.240,0:31:03.360
which actually stopped short of saying

0:31:02.000,0:31:06.399
that government divisions

0:31:03.360,0:31:08.320
performed sterilizations coercively but

0:31:06.399,0:31:10.559
it did raise a number of concerns

0:31:08.320,0:31:12.080
regarding the consent process and in the

0:31:10.559,0:31:14.320
aftermath of this report

0:31:12.080,0:31:16.159
amidst native activism and also activism

0:31:14.320,0:31:18.080
by african-american and latino women

0:31:16.159,0:31:20.000
women who were like most poignantly

0:31:18.080,0:31:21.679
affected the department of health

0:31:20.000,0:31:23.360
education and welfare adopted new

0:31:21.679,0:31:24.559
regulations that offered some tangible

0:31:23.360,0:31:27.440
protections for women

0:31:24.559,0:31:27.919
which went into effect in 1979. that’s

0:31:27.440,0:31:30.000
the t

0:31:27.919,0:31:31.519
about their resistance oh so the last

0:31:30.000,0:31:36.240
topic for

0:31:31.519,0:31:39.679
today um is latino women

0:31:36.240,0:31:42.080
and between the 1930s and the 1970s

0:31:39.679,0:31:45.840
approximately wait for it one-third of

0:31:42.080,0:31:47.120
the female population of puerto rico was

0:31:45.840,0:31:48.960
making it the highest rate of

0:31:47.120,0:31:51.760
sterilization in the world

0:31:48.960,0:31:52.880
yeah like i can’t yeah now do you know

0:31:51.760,0:31:55.200
about this

0:31:52.880,0:31:56.559
yeah i just okay so i just read this

0:31:55.200,0:31:58.480
book called how to hide an

0:31:56.559,0:32:00.000
empire i plugged it in one of my mini

0:31:58.480,0:32:03.039
cells but like literally like they

0:32:00.000,0:32:04.159
go over the all the four sterilization

0:32:03.039,0:32:05.600
and like other

0:32:04.159,0:32:08.080
i guess like medical experiments

0:32:05.600,0:32:08.640
conducted on puerto ricans at the time

0:32:08.080,0:32:11.760
and like

0:32:08.640,0:32:14.960
but like just a third of the population

0:32:11.760,0:32:19.200
like that’s so hard to comprehend and

0:32:14.960,0:32:21.840
like yeah is it okay also

0:32:19.200,0:32:22.720
can only women be forcefully sterilized

0:32:21.840,0:32:24.240
we don’t have to keep this in the

0:32:22.720,0:32:27.120
episode i’m just like very

0:32:24.240,0:32:28.320
no that’s a great question yeah um men

0:32:27.120,0:32:30.640
can too

0:32:28.320,0:32:31.600
but for sterilization usually apply to

0:32:30.640,0:32:34.240
women

0:32:31.600,0:32:34.960
um and i think it’s kind of for obvious

0:32:34.240,0:32:37.600
reasons

0:32:34.960,0:32:39.120
um i feel like birth control usually is

0:32:37.600,0:32:42.240
like the women’s

0:32:39.120,0:32:44.240
burden you know um and also i feel like

0:32:42.240,0:32:45.519
if a woman is giving birth it’s easy

0:32:44.240,0:32:46.000
while you’re already in there it’s kind

0:32:45.519,0:32:48.640
of like

0:32:46.000,0:32:50.080
have another operation that’s true if i

0:32:48.640,0:32:52.000
had to guess i would guess that

0:32:50.080,0:32:53.279
men were also forcibly sterilized you

0:32:52.000,0:32:56.000
know especially like

0:32:53.279,0:32:58.000
ones who had disability like kind of we

0:32:56.000,0:32:58.720
said earlier feeble-mindedness was

0:32:58.000,0:33:01.200
considered

0:32:58.720,0:33:02.240
okay yeah i was curious so some argue

0:33:01.200,0:33:04.159
that the pressure to increase

0:33:02.240,0:33:06.000
sterilization procedures in puerto rico

0:33:04.159,0:33:08.080
was a targeted practice to decrease a

0:33:06.000,0:33:09.279
high level of poverty and unemployment

0:33:08.080,0:33:11.120
because the government blamed these

0:33:09.279,0:33:12.960
issues on overpopulation the

0:33:11.120,0:33:14.880
legalization of contraception in puerto

0:33:12.960,0:33:17.840
rico and the puerto rican government

0:33:14.880,0:33:20.080
passage of a law allowing sterilization

0:33:17.840,0:33:23.679
to be conducted at the discretion of a

0:33:20.080,0:33:25.840
eugenics board both occurred in 1937

0:33:23.679,0:33:25.840
i know

0:33:26.720,0:33:29.760
soon after the legal change a program

0:33:28.720,0:33:32.799
endorsed by

0:33:29.760,0:33:34.320
the u.s government um began sending

0:33:32.799,0:33:35.440
health department officials to rural

0:33:34.320,0:33:38.799
parts of the island

0:33:35.440,0:33:40.880
advocating for sterilization and by 1946

0:33:38.799,0:33:42.320
postpartum sterilizations happened

0:33:40.880,0:33:43.120
frequently in various puerto rican

0:33:42.320,0:33:45.360
hospitals

0:33:43.120,0:33:46.480
however a year later a study found that

0:33:45.360,0:33:48.559
a quarter of the women who had been

0:33:46.480,0:33:50.640
sterilized regretted the decisions

0:33:48.559,0:33:52.159
if a quarter reported that they regret

0:33:50.640,0:33:53.360
it like i just i’m thinking like how

0:33:52.159,0:33:56.320
many women are missing

0:33:53.360,0:33:57.440
in this um yeah how many were surveyed

0:33:56.320,0:34:00.640
even

0:33:57.440,0:34:03.919
might accurately reflect the

0:34:00.640,0:34:06.880
like the true feeling of women right

0:34:03.919,0:34:08.399
um but even i don’t know even if it was

0:34:06.880,0:34:08.960
just a quarter a quarter stole a lot of

0:34:08.399,0:34:10.960
people

0:34:08.960,0:34:12.240
a lot of people and catholics and

0:34:10.960,0:34:14.159
nationalists fought against

0:34:12.240,0:34:16.480
sterilizations in the 1950s

0:34:14.159,0:34:18.240
which eventually resulted in the law

0:34:16.480,0:34:19.520
being repealed in 1960

0:34:18.240,0:34:21.359
and also i thought this was really

0:34:19.520,0:34:22.639
interesting in puerto rico family

0:34:21.359,0:34:24.240
planning clinics could be found in

0:34:22.639,0:34:25.359
factories that provided free

0:34:24.240,0:34:28.800
sterilization

0:34:25.359,0:34:32.399
thanks to a usaid grant which is

0:34:28.800,0:34:35.919
wow what’s an aid grant what’s that

0:34:32.399,0:34:38.079
usaid like usaid yeah

0:34:35.919,0:34:39.440
it’s the for the listeners who don’t

0:34:38.079,0:34:41.280
know i guess because it’s not a very

0:34:39.440,0:34:44.480
well-known government agency

0:34:41.280,0:34:45.520
um it’s a federal agency that um is kind

0:34:44.480,0:34:48.079
of in charge of like

0:34:45.520,0:34:48.960
international aid i interned with them a

0:34:48.079,0:34:51.280
few months ago

0:34:48.960,0:34:52.320
and it’s just not a good look it’s not a

0:34:51.280,0:34:55.599
good look

0:34:52.320,0:34:59.440
they don’t do this anymore but you know

0:34:55.599,0:35:01.119
i was like ow through this program

0:34:59.440,0:35:02.960
puerto rican women became the guinea

0:35:01.119,0:35:04.320
pigs for u.s pharmaceutical companies

0:35:02.960,0:35:06.240
who were developing the modern birth

0:35:04.320,0:35:06.720
control pill once again mixed feelings

0:35:06.240,0:35:08.960
because it’s

0:35:06.720,0:35:10.560
not like birth control like modern birth

0:35:08.960,0:35:11.440
control and the pill like has helped a

0:35:10.560,0:35:13.280
lot of women

0:35:11.440,0:35:14.560
but like this history so dicey like at

0:35:13.280,0:35:16.400
the heart of it to remember

0:35:14.560,0:35:18.160
is that whether or not it’s good or bad

0:35:16.400,0:35:19.520
depends like the opinion of the woman

0:35:18.160,0:35:20.960
who’s like affected by it because it

0:35:19.520,0:35:23.040
gets so confusing because it’s like

0:35:20.960,0:35:24.480
birth control isn’t good or bad you know

0:35:23.040,0:35:26.480
and like sterilization

0:35:24.480,0:35:28.320
or whatever the procedure is called now

0:35:26.480,0:35:30.079
it’s not like good or bad

0:35:28.320,0:35:31.680
depending on like whether you want it or

0:35:30.079,0:35:33.280
you don’t and that’s it you know

0:35:31.680,0:35:35.200
that’s true right so i think it’s an

0:35:33.280,0:35:38.640
important distinction maybe to treat

0:35:35.200,0:35:41.280
women as humans i don’t know maybe

0:35:38.640,0:35:42.079
i thought i don’t know in deep that’s

0:35:41.280,0:35:45.920
pretty

0:35:42.079,0:35:48.960
rad and it’s controversial it is radical

0:35:45.920,0:35:51.200
so for sterilization was also common in

0:35:48.960,0:35:52.400
california so there was this one case

0:35:51.200,0:35:55.280
magical versus

0:35:52.400,0:35:56.960
quilligan in 1975 there was a federal

0:35:55.280,0:35:57.520
class action lawsuit in which these

0:35:56.960,0:35:59.119
women

0:35:57.520,0:36:01.520
fought back after being sterilized

0:35:59.119,0:36:02.079
without informed consent or under duress

0:36:01.520,0:36:04.400
and so

0:36:02.079,0:36:06.400
these women kind of refer to latino

0:36:04.400,0:36:07.040
women latinx women there was dolores

0:36:06.400,0:36:08.800
madrigal

0:36:07.040,0:36:10.320
who was one of the 10 plaintiffs in the

0:36:08.800,0:36:12.160
case and she was told that her

0:36:10.320,0:36:14.640
sterilization could easily be reversed

0:36:12.160,0:36:16.480
which i can’t hovita rivera and georgina

0:36:14.640,0:36:16.960
hernandez said that they were pressured

0:36:16.480,0:36:19.040
into

0:36:16.960,0:36:20.880
agreeing to the procedure after being

0:36:19.040,0:36:22.480
intensely criticized by doctors and

0:36:20.880,0:36:23.040
nurses for being poor and having

0:36:22.480,0:36:24.560
children

0:36:23.040,0:36:26.560
these are haunting stories but

0:36:24.560,0:36:28.240
especially the one of ladina hernandez

0:36:26.560,0:36:29.359
who she didn’t even find out that she’d

0:36:28.240,0:36:31.680
been sterilized

0:36:29.359,0:36:33.119
until years after her son was born at

0:36:31.680,0:36:34.800
the heart of the case was a question of

0:36:33.119,0:36:36.800
whether women were coerced into being

0:36:34.800,0:36:38.640
sterilized and if so if latinos were

0:36:36.800,0:36:40.000
targeted and at the end of the trial

0:36:38.640,0:36:42.160
1978 the judge

0:36:40.000,0:36:43.359
ruled that get ready for it neither of

0:36:42.160,0:36:45.760
the charges were true

0:36:43.359,0:36:48.079
citing misunderstandings due to the fact

0:36:45.760,0:36:48.800
that the women primarily spoke spanish

0:36:48.079,0:36:50.720
the judge

0:36:48.800,0:36:52.079
blamed their distress from the procedure

0:36:50.720,0:36:53.839
on cultural background

0:36:52.079,0:36:55.440
that made these women believe that their

0:36:53.839,0:36:56.160
worth was in their ability to have

0:36:55.440,0:36:58.640
children

0:36:56.160,0:36:59.440
so basically he was like nah they

0:36:58.640,0:37:01.520
weren’t coerced

0:36:59.440,0:37:03.119
now latinos weren’t targeted because i

0:37:01.520,0:37:04.800
don’t know they spoke spanish and they

0:37:03.119,0:37:06.079
also felt that their worth was in their

0:37:04.800,0:37:08.160
ability to have children

0:37:06.079,0:37:09.240
that’s so messed up what year is that

0:37:08.160,0:37:12.240
again

0:37:09.240,0:37:16.480

1978. oh my god

0:37:12.240,0:37:18.320
oh my god another cause of this decision

0:37:16.480,0:37:19.760
was that voluntary informed consent was

0:37:18.320,0:37:22.960
not a legal requirement

0:37:19.760,0:37:24.880
which is crazy until 1974 after the case

0:37:22.960,0:37:26.000
was decided although the latino women

0:37:24.880,0:37:28.720
did not win the case

0:37:26.000,0:37:30.960
magical changed state laws and helped to

0:37:28.720,0:37:31.839
solidify the careers of various latino

0:37:30.960,0:37:34.880
politicians

0:37:31.839,0:37:36.960
so you know not nothing okay so

0:37:34.880,0:37:39.359
and that’s kind of all the history that

0:37:36.960,0:37:41.760
i have i just kind of wanted to

0:37:39.359,0:37:43.920
chat a little bit about the effects of

0:37:41.760,0:37:46.480
these like how they still last today

0:37:43.920,0:37:47.920
and how i don’t know i feel like for me

0:37:46.480,0:37:48.240
there’s like a lot of things that kind

0:37:47.920,0:37:50.240
of

0:37:48.240,0:37:51.680
affect us personally that you know maybe

0:37:50.240,0:37:53.839
we should be thinking about

0:37:51.680,0:37:55.200
that we haven’t really liked that aren’t

0:37:53.839,0:37:57.040
really conversations that are

0:37:55.200,0:37:58.320
had and so these questions are like what

0:37:57.040,0:38:00.640
it means to be a woman

0:37:58.320,0:38:01.440
and how being a woman is inherently

0:38:00.640,0:38:03.760
political

0:38:01.440,0:38:05.760
and that’s true because you know women

0:38:03.760,0:38:08.560
are like marginalized

0:38:05.760,0:38:09.599
um there’s the pay gap there’s a lot of

0:38:08.560,0:38:12.720
policies that

0:38:09.599,0:38:13.359
kind of like um kind of hurt women’s

0:38:12.720,0:38:16.480
ability

0:38:13.359,0:38:17.520
to be equal members of society and also

0:38:16.480,0:38:19.520
a woman of color

0:38:17.520,0:38:21.200
and what it means to be able to control

0:38:19.520,0:38:22.640
one’s own reproductive future because i

0:38:21.200,0:38:24.240
feel like we talked about before like

0:38:22.640,0:38:25.440
it’s even scared like even just having

0:38:24.240,0:38:27.440
children

0:38:25.440,0:38:29.280
is terrifying you know and even just

0:38:27.440,0:38:31.280
like the responsibility of that

0:38:29.280,0:38:32.640
is terrifying but the fact that like

0:38:31.280,0:38:33.599
we’re able to control that on an

0:38:32.640,0:38:35.440
individual level

0:38:33.599,0:38:36.960
and how powerful and privileged even

0:38:35.440,0:38:39.040
those concerns are is like

0:38:36.960,0:38:41.040
really crazy to think about you know

0:38:39.040,0:38:41.760
yeah so i don’t know let’s talk about

0:38:41.040,0:38:42.800
those things

0:38:41.760,0:38:44.880
i feel like do you guys have any

0:38:42.800,0:38:46.400
thoughts on those

0:38:44.880,0:38:48.160
that’s a really good that’s a really

0:38:46.400,0:38:51.040
good question

0:38:48.160,0:38:52.320
i guess yeah i mean like you can’t

0:38:51.040,0:38:54.079
ignore

0:38:52.320,0:38:56.000
the ways in which women especially that

0:38:54.079,0:38:57.359
layer of color the ways in which people

0:38:56.000,0:38:59.119
of different color have been treated

0:38:57.359,0:39:01.599
historically and the way

0:38:59.119,0:39:02.880
that your gender will affect like what

0:39:01.599,0:39:04.880
jobs you can take

0:39:02.880,0:39:06.560
what and that this is like societal

0:39:04.880,0:39:07.119
pressure but also there are actual laws

0:39:06.560,0:39:08.640
in place

0:39:07.119,0:39:09.839
that like keep you from having the vote

0:39:08.640,0:39:10.800
they keep you from having government

0:39:09.839,0:39:12.400
representation

0:39:10.800,0:39:14.079
they keep you from getting to study

0:39:12.400,0:39:15.839
certain subjects in school yeah there’s

0:39:14.079,0:39:17.760
just like so many layers and i

0:39:15.839,0:39:19.040
when you’re talking about um all the

0:39:17.760,0:39:21.200
ways in which there’s been like

0:39:19.040,0:39:23.839
sterilization of different colored women

0:39:21.200,0:39:25.200
i also want to add to i know like asian

0:39:23.839,0:39:26.000
women are not super part of this

0:39:25.200,0:39:28.160
narrative

0:39:26.000,0:39:29.920
and reason that could be is because with

0:39:28.160,0:39:31.200
the chinese exclusion act like asian

0:39:29.920,0:39:31.680
women were not allowed to enter the

0:39:31.200,0:39:34.880
country

0:39:31.680,0:39:36.400
during this time up until the 1950s so

0:39:34.880,0:39:38.079
you know there’s so many other layers

0:39:36.400,0:39:39.359
and asian women are not excused from

0:39:38.079,0:39:41.040
this there are lots of things that were

0:39:39.359,0:39:42.640
happening over in east asia and

0:39:41.040,0:39:44.560
southeast asia too and

0:39:42.640,0:39:46.160
this is something that affects everyone

0:39:44.560,0:39:47.920
globally and

0:39:46.160,0:39:49.440
melinda gates and like michelle obama

0:39:47.920,0:39:51.040
all do a lot of work with like girl

0:39:49.440,0:39:53.520
empowerment around the world

0:39:51.040,0:39:54.720
and it’s proven time and time again yes

0:39:53.520,0:39:56.640
with statistics that

0:39:54.720,0:39:58.240
whoever suffers the most like in our

0:39:56.640,0:39:59.200
global sphere is going to be like a

0:39:58.240,0:40:01.359
colored woman

0:39:59.200,0:40:03.040
yeah i guess like to add on to like

0:40:01.359,0:40:05.920
intersectionality of like

0:40:03.040,0:40:06.880
gender and race like this does not

0:40:05.920,0:40:09.839
surprise me

0:40:06.880,0:40:10.400
that i have not heard of a lot of this

0:40:09.839,0:40:12.400
before

0:40:10.400,0:40:13.520
because like i feel like the feminist

0:40:12.400,0:40:16.960
movement in general

0:40:13.520,0:40:20.000
and like women’s history in the us is so

0:40:16.960,0:40:22.480
whitewashed and like we only learn about

0:40:20.000,0:40:23.920
white women in the us i just can’t get

0:40:22.480,0:40:24.640
over the fact that this is happening

0:40:23.920,0:40:26.640
until

0:40:24.640,0:40:27.760
the 80s no one’s talking about it

0:40:26.640,0:40:29.200
especially like

0:40:27.760,0:40:30.880
coming from canada where like they’re

0:40:29.200,0:40:32.800
doing so much research and so much

0:40:30.880,0:40:34.800
reconciliation efforts and like just

0:40:32.800,0:40:37.200
trying to bring awareness to the issue

0:40:34.800,0:40:39.280
and like educating the people on this

0:40:37.200,0:40:41.359
topic the efforts are a lot

0:40:39.280,0:40:43.119
weaker here compared to what i’ve seen

0:40:41.359,0:40:44.480
in canada at least that i’m aware of

0:40:43.119,0:40:46.640
going off your point nat

0:40:44.480,0:40:47.599
in deep i want to ask did you discover

0:40:46.640,0:40:50.560
any like

0:40:47.599,0:40:51.119
reparations that have been made to make

0:40:50.560,0:40:52.960
right

0:40:51.119,0:40:55.280
these wrongs that have happened yeah i

0:40:52.960,0:40:58.400
think that there has been an effort

0:40:55.280,0:41:00.319
towards reparations i’m not sure exactly

0:40:58.400,0:41:01.520
which population i do remember there was

0:41:00.319,0:41:03.359
a mentioning about how

0:41:01.520,0:41:04.880
some families who were affected by four

0:41:03.359,0:41:06.480
sterilization i think it might have been

0:41:04.880,0:41:09.040
indigenous families where

0:41:06.480,0:41:10.000
they tried to give them reparations but

0:41:09.040,0:41:11.520
at the same time i

0:41:10.000,0:41:14.079
think that there was also talk about

0:41:11.520,0:41:15.520
like how it isn’t entirely successful

0:41:14.079,0:41:17.359
implies like you can’t make up for that

0:41:15.520,0:41:19.359
you know there is a consensus

0:41:17.359,0:41:20.480
like the reparations are not ideal but i

0:41:19.359,0:41:23.520
think that reparations

0:41:20.480,0:41:24.720
were like attempted by the united states

0:41:23.520,0:41:26.079
i don’t know how can you repent like i

0:41:24.720,0:41:27.760
just feel like it’s impossible because

0:41:26.079,0:41:29.200
right history builds on itself so how

0:41:27.760,0:41:31.920
can you repair

0:41:29.200,0:41:33.599
like breaking down a whole civilization

0:41:31.920,0:41:34.880
just this current state of the united

0:41:33.599,0:41:36.160
states would be entirely different like

0:41:34.880,0:41:38.480
there’s nothing you can do

0:41:36.160,0:41:39.200
to fix that bring that back or like make

0:41:38.480,0:41:41.599
it okay

0:41:39.200,0:41:43.520
you know right there’s value too though

0:41:41.599,0:41:45.119
and that attempt should still be made i

0:41:43.520,0:41:46.319
think like a lot of people will use that

0:41:45.119,0:41:48.319
argument and they’ll

0:41:46.319,0:41:49.760
be like we know each generation should

0:41:48.319,0:41:51.040
start fresh and

0:41:49.760,0:41:53.440
there’s nothing we can do it’s in the

0:41:51.040,0:41:55.200
past no each generation is not starting

0:41:53.440,0:41:57.280
fresh though because of the past so

0:41:55.200,0:41:59.839
there should be a continuous effort to

0:41:57.280,0:42:01.920
make those reparations and okay i just

0:41:59.839,0:42:04.400
like a little because i was watching a

0:42:01.920,0:42:06.160
finance video as you guys know i love

0:42:04.400,0:42:07.359
and we’re talking about the economics of

0:42:06.160,0:42:08.240
what it’s like to graduate in a

0:42:07.359,0:42:10.480
recession

0:42:08.240,0:42:12.160
and so think about the 2008 financial

0:42:10.480,0:42:12.960
crisis all those people graduating the

0:42:12.160,0:42:15.040
recession

0:42:12.960,0:42:16.800
and now it’s projected these are

0:42:15.040,0:42:17.280
statistics not my opinion they have

0:42:16.800,0:42:19.520
lower

0:42:17.280,0:42:21.040
earnings they have less probability to

0:42:19.520,0:42:22.960
start a family less probability

0:42:21.040,0:42:24.720
to buy a house because they were like

0:42:22.960,0:42:26.640
slammed with these loans and

0:42:24.720,0:42:28.240
lower pay wages because you’re

0:42:26.640,0:42:29.920
graduating in a bad job market

0:42:28.240,0:42:31.760
less opportunities they’re not in the

0:42:29.920,0:42:34.000
same places as their parents were

0:42:31.760,0:42:35.839
for building wealth for their families

0:42:34.000,0:42:37.599
and that’s nothing that they did

0:42:35.839,0:42:39.119
i think we all can agree economically

0:42:37.599,0:42:40.560
you got dealt a bad hand

0:42:39.119,0:42:42.560
and it’s not anything that you did you

0:42:40.560,0:42:44.640
went to school you did the right things

0:42:42.560,0:42:46.640
and if you can think about that and then

0:42:44.640,0:42:48.160
you can shift your mind to understand

0:42:46.640,0:42:49.680
that that’s exactly what happens

0:42:48.160,0:42:51.920
to people of color it’s nothing that

0:42:49.680,0:42:53.280
they’re doing wrong or anyone in any

0:42:51.920,0:42:54.160
oppressive i want to like i’m from

0:42:53.280,0:42:56.319
appalachia

0:42:54.160,0:42:57.920
appalachian is white working class there

0:42:56.319,0:42:58.560
have been problems with that group as

0:42:57.920,0:43:00.160
well they’re

0:42:58.560,0:43:02.480
white immigrants as well who have dealt

0:43:00.160,0:43:03.119
with things but the point is that like

0:43:02.480,0:43:05.040
sometimes

0:43:03.119,0:43:06.800
things are not within your control that

0:43:05.040,0:43:08.560
have happened to you and now you’re

0:43:06.800,0:43:10.160
dealing with all the repercussions of

0:43:08.560,0:43:12.000
that throughout generations

0:43:10.160,0:43:13.599
and that’s nothing that you did wrong

0:43:12.000,0:43:15.520
and that that’s up to us

0:43:13.599,0:43:16.960
who are in positions of power and

0:43:15.520,0:43:18.640
privilege to help

0:43:16.960,0:43:20.319
in any way that we can if that makes

0:43:18.640,0:43:23.440
sense that’s how i see it

0:43:20.319,0:43:25.119
as some hot tea i 100 agree i do realize

0:43:23.440,0:43:26.480
that that argument is an argument and

0:43:25.119,0:43:28.000
not making reparations

0:43:26.480,0:43:29.680
i think it was just being a little bit

0:43:28.000,0:43:31.520
like how could you ever you know i

0:43:29.680,0:43:33.119
understand

0:43:31.520,0:43:34.720
you know but that is a good point and i

0:43:33.119,0:43:36.480
think that i should be like a little

0:43:34.720,0:43:38.640
more mindful of the way that i

0:43:36.480,0:43:40.160
kind of say like oh but you can’t even

0:43:38.640,0:43:42.000
do it you know because that is a good

0:43:40.160,0:43:44.720
point it’s not possible to

0:43:42.000,0:43:46.000
completely make up for what’s been done

0:43:44.720,0:43:46.400
but if there’s no effort then like

0:43:46.000,0:43:47.680
you’re

0:43:46.400,0:43:49.280
you’re just still doing it well it’s

0:43:47.680,0:43:50.400
like population control is something

0:43:49.280,0:43:52.319
that’s so permanent

0:43:50.400,0:43:54.000
yeah like you said like how like how can

0:43:52.319,0:43:56.480
you make up for it but at the very least

0:43:54.000,0:43:57.839
we could at least educate ourselves and

0:43:56.480,0:44:00.480
like promote awareness

0:43:57.839,0:44:02.319
how are we supposed to come up with not

0:44:00.480,0:44:04.720
a solution necessarily but like how are

0:44:02.319,0:44:06.720
we supposed to respond to this and like

0:44:04.720,0:44:08.319
help promote change if like no one knows

0:44:06.720,0:44:10.160
about it you know yeah

0:44:08.319,0:44:11.599
so really touching this but i also

0:44:10.160,0:44:13.599
wanted to think about how some of these

0:44:11.599,0:44:15.040
practices and problems may be ongoing

0:44:13.599,0:44:16.720
and the repercussions of them are

0:44:15.040,0:44:18.240
definitely ongoing in the us

0:44:16.720,0:44:19.359
this is obvious that these policies were

0:44:18.240,0:44:20.800
not written by the people who were

0:44:19.359,0:44:22.000
affected the fact that i’m still

0:44:20.800,0:44:23.920
surprised when i see women

0:44:22.000,0:44:25.359
of color in congress tells us that like

0:44:23.920,0:44:26.720
we’re not at the point where

0:44:25.359,0:44:28.720
the communities that are affected by

0:44:26.720,0:44:30.400
policy are an equal representation of

0:44:28.720,0:44:33.280
the ones making the policy

0:44:30.400,0:44:35.359
i guess those are my remarks and uh how

0:44:33.280,0:44:37.440
are you

0:44:35.359,0:44:39.440
to guys on to that but i recently read

0:44:37.440,0:44:40.000
an article by the new york times talking

0:44:39.440,0:44:43.040
about

0:44:40.000,0:44:45.040
healthcare bias towards black women in

0:44:43.040,0:44:47.440
like the healthcare sector and how

0:44:45.040,0:44:49.040
more women of color died during

0:44:47.440,0:44:50.160
childbirth because

0:44:49.040,0:44:52.240
kind of like you mentioned earlier

0:44:50.160,0:44:54.560
perception of pain there’s a bias

0:44:52.240,0:44:56.400
that people of color women of color

0:44:54.560,0:44:58.000
don’t feel as much pain so if women

0:44:56.400,0:44:59.440
say they’re in pain or there’s something

0:44:58.000,0:45:01.200
wrong they’re not going to be

0:44:59.440,0:45:02.960
believed as much so like that’s another

0:45:01.200,0:45:05.119
thing that’s like oh there’s still

0:45:02.960,0:45:06.960
a lot of issues ongoing today thank you

0:45:05.119,0:45:09.359
so much indeed like that was

0:45:06.960,0:45:10.319
incredible and like so comprehensive and

0:45:09.359,0:45:12.160
like i literally

0:45:10.319,0:45:13.680
i learned so much and there’s so many

0:45:12.160,0:45:15.359
topics that you brought up that

0:45:13.680,0:45:17.359
i want to look into maybe we could do in

0:45:15.359,0:45:19.280
future episodes like everyone

0:45:17.359,0:45:21.280
encourage you to do like individual

0:45:19.280,0:45:23.599
research too like we mentioned

0:45:21.280,0:45:25.280
there’s still ongoing violations of

0:45:23.599,0:45:28.960
women of color’s bodies so

0:45:25.280,0:45:30.240
don’t forget don’t forget and also it

0:45:28.960,0:45:33.280
was my pleasure

0:45:30.240,0:45:35.040
thank you indeed thanks guys it was my i

0:45:33.280,0:45:37.920
can talk about women’s reproductive

0:45:35.040,0:45:39.520
health and intersectionality and old i

0:45:37.920,0:45:41.440
can literally talk about it all day

0:45:39.520,0:45:43.200
like we found my passion yeah we’re

0:45:41.440,0:45:44.319
bringing you back for another episode

0:45:43.200,0:45:46.650
you know it

0:45:44.319,0:45:57.469
you know i would love it

0:45:46.650,0:45:57.469
[Music]