Hiatus Update! – How Did We Not Know That
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Show Notes
Wiretaps, undercover surveillance, and Soviet spies: this is what the US looked like in the 1950’s. In this episode, Nat goes over the Red Scare and McCarthyism, and the widespread fear of communism that shook the country.
Sources:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uEeadIGqf3zO8auijhkVCbja3Dt17ZGpfowoahB-uQc/edit?usp=sharing
Transcript
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hello everybody and welcome back to
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another episode of how did we not know
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that I’m Jack and today actually don’t
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know what you’re gonna talk about today
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yet today I’m going to be talking about
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communism fun communism in the red
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square favorite yeah before I talk about
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today’s topic I wanted to remind all of
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our new listeners to subscribe to our
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show and to leave a review wherever
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follow us on our social media at HD W&K
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and Katie yeah and JT social media you
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guys can answer our polls and you also
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get the latest updates about our new
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more exciting news you can now check out
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a history hero and get a fun shout out
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in one of our future episodes so
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definitely check that out enough of our
0:01:14.850,0:01:19.159
propaganda to get you to support us
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today I’m talking about the Red Scare
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and McCarthyism so before I go on ahead
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Jack what do you know about the Red
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Scare okay I’ve never heard of
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McCarthyism that second thing that you
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just said but the Red Scare was during
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the is it like World War two yeah it is
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right it’s okay so World War two yeah I
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think we’re just like very scared of the
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rise of communism to the point where I
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believe people were like reporting their
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neighbors if they thought you were a
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communist um but yeah I only know cuz
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the space race rumor like one of the
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yeah with the space race when they like
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formed a like joined alliances
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with the Soviet Union because like Nazi
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Germany was worse than communism at the
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time so ya know yeah it’s like kind of
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in the same time period it’s during the
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Cold War but yeah so I so I remember
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learning about the Red Scare in high
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school I just remember like Senator
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McCarthy who will talk about later and
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yeah pretty much the same thing just
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like Oh communism is bad and it’s gonna
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tear down our country but I like after
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doing research I did not realize the
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extent that it had in our government and
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like the laws we were passing and it’s
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so scary um also like I did not realize
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there actually to read scares so this
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was news to me
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so the first Red Scare it actually began
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during World War one so in 1917 there is
0:03:02.860,0:03:09.069
the outbreak of the Russian Revolution
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led by Vladimir Lenin and the Bolsheviks
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and Bolsheviks are basically it’s like
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another word for communism kind of and
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Lenin and the Bolsheviks destroy the
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Romanov dynasty that had been ruling
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Russia up until then so okay that them
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is it the monarchy with like princess
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Anastasia that goes missing yeah super
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dark yeah I’m not like nighttime and
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we’re in closets like I don’t want to
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not be able to sleep yeah in our
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appearance yeah so yeah the Romanov
0:03:51.730,0:03:57.130
dynasty had been ruling forever and the
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US was actually supporting the dynasty
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and Tsar Nicholas and after World War
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one they actually sent troops to Russia
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hoping that they could help defeat the
0:04:05.260,0:04:10.150
red Communist rebel forces but the
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Bolsheviks one and they murder the
0:04:10.150,0:04:15.700
entire Romanov family and they slowly
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secure control all over Russia and so
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this is pretty much the beginning of the
0:04:17.650,0:04:22.930
rise of the Communist Party but it’s not
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like this was the first time anyone had
0:04:22.930,0:04:26.560
heard of communism so Karl Marx’s
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ideology
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had been well-known since 1848 there’s
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kind of the father of communism and but
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this revolution in particular was so I
0:04:36.550,0:04:41.440
guess triggering because up until now it
0:04:39.160,0:04:43.300
had just been a theory and before this
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no country in the world had had a
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successful communist revolution and so
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capitalist countries all around the
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world were like international fear of
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communism and anarchy in general so in
0:04:59.350,0:05:03.340
the u.s. veterans are returning home
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from World War one and workers were
0:05:03.340,0:05:09.220
demanding increases in order to keep up
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with increasing inflation in the US and
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so in the short period following World
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War one there are actually over 3,300
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labor strikes in the US and in 1919 a
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small group of radicals formed the
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Communist Labor Party and the press
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basically since sensationalized all of
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these labor strikes as being caused by
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immigrants who wanted to destroy the
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American Way of life and everyone
0:05:34.450,0:05:39.490
including both progressive and
0:05:36.910,0:05:42.280
conservative Americans were super scared
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of a communist revolution in the US and
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they pretty much decided that the labor
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activism was a threat to national
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security and it had to be soft as soon
0:05:49.840,0:05:55.840
as possible and so I just wanted a quick
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throwback to episode 5 is it free speech
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or espionage we talked about the
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Sedition Act of 1918 you remember but
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you don’t have to quote it but dude is
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it like we talked about wasn’t it that
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like in wartime you cannot your freedom
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of speech is like limited in times of
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war yeah kind of it yeah like this act
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it targets people who criticize the
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government
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so yeah limits their free speech and it
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monitored radicals and labor unions with
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the threat of deportation
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so yeah you were spot on we go way more
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into detail in episode 5 so pay
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attention ok I have a question too
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before you go on
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so you said anarchy and communism
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like both they’re scared of both is it
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their separate scares though because
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like is communism anarchy are they
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they’re not the same no not at all
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barely not even similar but they’re just
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scared of a revolution that will
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overthrow their government and like
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thought of system the American system
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and capitalism and so they kind of put
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the two together because like communism
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has nothing to do with anarchy but
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they’re just like oh in order to become
0:07:06.320,0:07:12.640
a communist come communist country we’d
0:07:08.780,0:07:15.560
have to overthrow our current way of
0:07:12.640,0:07:17.450
government so yeah that’s kind of why
0:07:15.560,0:07:20.000
they’re like okay anarchy in general
0:07:17.450,0:07:22.060
like that Anakin anarchy just means no
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government at all and like everyone
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martyrs whatever they want oh so yeah
0:07:26.090,0:07:29.900
they were just scared of an overthrow of
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the government if that makes sense
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and they kind of their I mean their fear
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isn’t unwarranted because in the night
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in 1919 the u.s. is shook by a series of
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bombings carried out by anarchists that
0:07:43.640,0:07:47.590
targeted the homes of law enforcement
0:07:45.320,0:07:51.110
and government officials in Boston
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Cleveland Philadelphia Washington DC in
0:07:51.110,0:07:56.360
New York City and so Americans are
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absolutely terrified because their worst
0:07:56.360,0:08:01.520
fears seem to be coming through like
0:07:58.669,0:08:04.640
right in front of their own eyes and US
0:08:01.520,0:08:06.800
Attorney General Alexander okay I’m
0:08:04.640,0:08:09.440
gonna say the US Attorney General
0:08:06.800,0:08:11.780
Alexander mitchell Palmer would carry
0:08:09.440,0:08:12.650
out what would later be known as the
0:08:11.780,0:08:15.350
Palmer Raids
0:08:12.650,0:08:17.870
and these were a series of violent law
0:08:15.350,0:08:21.620
enforcement raids that targeted leftist
0:08:17.870,0:08:24.890
radicals and anarchists in 1919 and 1920
0:08:21.620,0:08:25.400
and this would later be known as the red
0:08:24.890,0:08:28.669
summer
0:08:25.400,0:08:31.460
okay so through Palmer support the
0:08:28.669,0:08:34.640
Federal Bureau of Investigation also
0:08:31.460,0:08:36.950
known as the FBI is created under the
0:08:34.640,0:08:39.890
leadership of J Edgar Hoover so it’s
0:08:36.950,0:08:42.860
basically created to find aunt economy
0:08:39.890,0:08:43.370
to find communists within the federal
0:08:42.860,0:08:47.540
government
0:08:43.370,0:08:49.790
so in January 8th 1920s VI agents break
0:08:47.540,0:08:52.520
into the homes of suspected and our case
0:08:49.790,0:08:52.960
without any search words and then the
0:08:52.520,0:08:55.290
arrest
0:08:52.960,0:08:58.090
labor leaders they end up holding about
0:08:55.290,0:09:01.540
5,000 citizens without respecting their
0:08:58.090,0:09:04.260
right to legal counsel and eventually
0:09:01.540,0:09:07.570
most of these people are released but
0:09:04.260,0:09:11.620
249 Russian immigrants are deported
0:09:07.570,0:09:14.100
without just cause so this is like
0:09:11.620,0:09:17.560
completely awful and is obviously a
0:09:14.100,0:09:20.110
blatant violation of civil liberties but
0:09:17.560,0:09:21.610
Palmer he believed that American civil
0:09:20.110,0:09:24.070
liberties were less important than
0:09:21.610,0:09:26.710
protecting national security so I it’s
0:09:24.070,0:09:28.750
just like horrifying to see I don’t know
0:09:26.710,0:09:30.220
just like the tenants of our legal
0:09:28.750,0:09:33.340
system it was completely thrown out the
0:09:30.220,0:09:35.800
window and yeah and they’re targeting
0:09:33.340,0:09:39.940
immigrants too so I’m sure they had a
0:09:35.800,0:09:42.250
lot less power you know there’s always a
0:09:39.940,0:09:44.710
loophole it’s like life and liberty all
0:09:42.250,0:09:46.140
men are created equal but but like you
0:09:44.710,0:09:49.120
know I mean there’s always something
0:09:46.140,0:09:51.250
yeah exactly so that was really
0:09:49.120,0:09:52.900
upsetting to hear about and it like
0:09:51.250,0:09:55.570
continues like this it it just gets
0:09:52.900,0:09:57.430
worse so basically so this is a first
0:09:55.570,0:09:59.080
Red Scare right so eventually it dies
0:09:57.430,0:10:01.120
down because then we enter World War two
0:09:59.080,0:10:03.940
and we’re focused on Nazi Germany but
0:10:01.120,0:10:06.430
then World War two ends and then the
0:10:03.940,0:10:09.130
fear of communism is reignited and
0:10:06.430,0:10:11.050
becomes much more intense because after
0:10:09.130,0:10:13.810
World War two the US and Soviet Union
0:10:11.050,0:10:15.370
become enemies in the Cold War so that’s
0:10:13.810,0:10:18.700
yeah we touched on the Cold War a little
0:10:15.370,0:10:28.000
bit in our space race episode a lot more
0:10:18.700,0:10:31.390
lighthearted than check it out yeah ten
0:10:28.000,0:10:34.300
out of ten great yeah so the whole
0:10:31.390,0:10:36.880
country is scared of Americans working
0:10:34.300,0:10:39.010
as Soviet spies and this poses a threat
0:10:36.880,0:10:41.710
to national security so you might be
0:10:39.010,0:10:43.810
thinking like okay everyone just chill
0:10:41.710,0:10:45.940
that’s a bit dramatic that they’re like
0:10:43.810,0:10:48.610
Soviet spies in our government but
0:10:45.940,0:10:51.550
there’s actually quite a long history of
0:10:48.610,0:10:54.100
the Soviet Union carrying out espionage
0:10:51.550,0:10:56.260
activities inside the US through the
0:10:54.100,0:10:59.740
help of US citizens especially during
0:10:56.260,0:11:02.170
World War two um there are also several
0:10:59.740,0:11:05.200
huge events around the world at this
0:11:02.170,0:11:06.400
time that really like ignite this fear
0:11:05.200,0:11:09.190
and make the threat
0:11:06.400,0:11:12.580
of a communist revolution seem more
0:11:09.190,0:11:15.850
likely and so in August 40 in August
0:11:12.580,0:11:18.430
1949 the Soviet Union successfully tests
0:11:15.850,0:11:22.240
its first nuclear bomb and the US is
0:11:18.430,0:11:28.990
like oh no try not to swear but like
0:11:22.240,0:11:31.600
insert expletive but also 1949 communist
0:11:28.990,0:11:36.250
forces led by Mao Zedong take control
0:11:31.600,0:11:39.610
over China and then it through 1950 to
0:11:36.250,0:11:41.589
1953 US troops are fighting the
0:11:39.610,0:11:45.370
Communists supported forces of North
0:11:41.589,0:11:47.560
Korea in the Korean War and so yeah
0:11:45.370,0:11:49.089
we’re fighting communists all over the
0:11:47.560,0:11:50.890
world and we’re just like we’re seeing
0:11:49.089,0:11:52.930
it spread and we’re like oh my gosh it’s
0:11:50.890,0:11:56.440
only a matter of time before it takes
0:11:52.930,0:11:58.570
over the US so very quickly we start to
0:11:56.440,0:12:02.279
see I guess our federal government
0:11:58.570,0:12:05.440
respond to this right so in March 21st
0:12:02.279,0:12:09.160
1947 President Harry Truman issues
0:12:05.440,0:12:11.740
executive order 9 8:35 also known as the
0:12:09.160,0:12:14.050
loyalty order this mandates that all
0:12:11.740,0:12:16.000
federal employees must be analyzed to
0:12:14.050,0:12:19.209
determine whether they were sufficiently
0:12:16.000,0:12:21.339
loyal to the government which like just
0:12:19.209,0:12:24.040
the wording itself like oil to the
0:12:21.339,0:12:25.930
government that’s so ominous and it’s
0:12:24.040,0:12:28.120
like a huge deal for a country that
0:12:25.930,0:12:30.100
prides itself with the values of
0:12:28.120,0:12:32.470
personal liberty and freedom of
0:12:30.100,0:12:36.000
political organization like I don’t know
0:12:32.470,0:12:39.459
this is just crazy that this got passed
0:12:36.000,0:12:43.029
yeah it kinda it feels a bit 1984 which
0:12:39.459,0:12:45.880
I’ve been just such a 1984 I like have
0:12:43.029,0:12:48.400
issues with that book but um yeah that
0:12:45.880,0:12:52.180
feels that line just feels very like
0:12:48.400,0:12:53.020
it’s out of a dystopian novel this is
0:12:52.180,0:12:56.020
what Harry
0:12:53.020,0:12:58.450
President Truman passes also in the FBI
0:12:56.020,0:13:01.600
under the leadership of day edgar Hoover
0:12:58.450,0:13:03.660
they begin compiling extensive files on
0:13:01.600,0:13:06.670
suspected spies through the use of
0:13:03.660,0:13:09.279
wiretaps and surveillance and they also
0:13:06.670,0:13:11.320
infiltrate leftist groups and these
0:13:09.279,0:13:13.779
files and evidence are later used in the
0:13:11.320,0:13:16.390
court and so one of these was the high
0:13:13.779,0:13:19.270
profile conviction of Julius and Ethel
0:13:16.390,0:13:20.529
Rosenberg for espionage they were
0:13:19.270,0:13:23.139
basically accused
0:13:20.529,0:13:26.499
of overseeing a spy network at Seoul
0:13:23.139,0:13:29.919
American atomic bomb secrets and handed
0:13:26.499,0:13:32.469
them over to the Soviet Union and they
0:13:29.919,0:13:35.049
were found guilty and were executed two
0:13:32.469,0:13:38.159
years later making them the only alleged
0:13:35.049,0:13:41.769
spies executed during the Red Scare and
0:13:38.159,0:13:43.959
Hoover was super anti-communist and he
0:13:41.769,0:13:46.629
was also super quick to label any kind
0:13:43.959,0:13:48.519
of protest as communist including major
0:13:46.629,0:13:50.799
civil rights demonstrations at the time
0:13:48.519,0:13:54.429
so he had actually labeled Martin Luther
0:13:50.799,0:13:58.389
King jr. as a communist so we see our
0:13:54.429,0:14:03.039
presidents passing laws we see our
0:13:58.389,0:14:05.829
judicial system uh also freaking out and
0:14:03.039,0:14:07.599
then the FBI is freaking out and then if
0:14:05.829,0:14:10.149
we look at the House of Representatives
0:14:07.599,0:14:12.519
in Congress we see the creation of the
0:14:10.149,0:14:15.879
house on American Activities Committee
0:14:12.519,0:14:17.799
also known as eight new AC it was
0:14:15.879,0:14:21.069
actually formed in 1938 but it really
0:14:17.799,0:14:23.079
reached its height in the 1950s so
0:14:21.069,0:14:24.759
federal employees especially those in
0:14:23.079,0:14:26.589
the State Department and intelligence
0:14:24.759,0:14:28.749
agencies were analyzed to determine
0:14:26.589,0:14:31.720
whether or not they were loyal to the
0:14:28.749,0:14:34.119
government and again this isn’t even a
0:14:31.720,0:14:36.459
partisan issue politicians on both sides
0:14:34.119,0:14:38.709
try to make sure no one thought they
0:14:36.459,0:14:41.369
were anti-communist and no one wanted to
0:14:38.709,0:14:43.899
criticize these tactics used to punish
0:14:41.369,0:14:45.249
suspected communists because they were
0:14:43.899,0:14:48.220
scared of the backlash they would
0:14:45.249,0:14:50.559
receive yeah then you look like you’re a
0:14:48.220,0:14:52.569
communist it’s like what’s the big deal
0:14:50.559,0:14:55.029
if you’re not a communist what then we
0:14:52.569,0:14:57.189
should have this policy yeah if people
0:14:55.029,0:14:59.829
are so quick to point thing you’re so
0:14:57.189,0:15:02.799
quick to convict and it’s just like a
0:14:59.829,0:15:05.439
really terrifying time yeah it’s like
0:15:02.799,0:15:08.109
that um what is it like the witch the
0:15:05.439,0:15:12.159
witch like yeah things that were going
0:15:08.109,0:15:16.149
on yeah yeah literally it’s just like
0:15:12.159,0:15:18.639
pointing all yours yeah I have a
0:15:16.149,0:15:21.159
question with them so what I’m are you
0:15:18.639,0:15:23.199
gonna explain kind of what is deemed as
0:15:21.159,0:15:25.839
loyal versus not loyal to the government
0:15:23.199,0:15:28.070
I mean that’s the thing is like it’s
0:15:25.839,0:15:31.550
super vague
0:15:28.070,0:15:34.630
as our umbrella like oh if you’re seen
0:15:31.550,0:15:37.460
as more to the left more communists in
0:15:34.630,0:15:39.230
some way like okay you’re not loyal to
0:15:37.460,0:15:41.630
the government but people use this
0:15:39.230,0:15:43.310
tactic actually the tactic itself is
0:15:41.630,0:15:44.330
called red-baiting when you just point
0:15:43.310,0:15:45.980
fingers at someone you’re like you’re
0:15:44.330,0:15:48.230
communist and you’re out of here
0:15:45.980,0:15:50.690
but like politicians would just use it
0:15:48.230,0:15:51.740
against their political enemies and so
0:15:50.690,0:15:53.090
like if you didn’t get along with
0:15:51.740,0:15:56.180
someone you really okay with he’s a
0:15:53.090,0:15:58.280
communist like the n-double-a-cp was
0:15:56.180,0:16:01.730
labeled as a communist or of course they
0:15:58.280,0:16:04.010
were we can I could go on and on and on
0:16:01.730,0:16:06.170
but ya know I’m not surprised that they
0:16:04.010,0:16:08.420
label at the end of lazy P is communist
0:16:06.170,0:16:10.760
so like there doesn’t even have to be
0:16:08.420,0:16:12.670
evidence like you could just say I just
0:16:10.760,0:16:16.370
know like there are communists and
0:16:12.670,0:16:18.940
people yeah they’re just little evidence
0:16:16.370,0:16:21.260
is needed in order to convict someone so
0:16:18.940,0:16:24.710
it really is just like the Salem witch
0:16:21.260,0:16:26.690
trials but yeah so as a result obviously
0:16:24.710,0:16:29.480
you left his political group membership
0:16:26.690,0:16:32.270
Falls and opposing voices fall silent
0:16:29.480,0:16:32.900
because everyone’s horrified and also
0:16:32.270,0:16:34.910
this is crazy
0:16:32.900,0:16:37.640
twenty-eight states actually banned the
0:16:34.910,0:16:40.160
public use or the public display of red
0:16:37.640,0:16:44.060
flags in their state which is like so
0:16:40.160,0:16:45.920
extreme and yeah and so the height of
0:16:44.060,0:16:47.660
the Red Scare I mean I can’t really talk
0:16:45.920,0:16:50.260
about the red sphere without talking
0:16:47.660,0:16:53.420
about Senator Joseph McCarthy of
0:16:50.260,0:16:55.940
Wisconsin and McCarthyism so he’s pretty
0:16:53.420,0:16:58.070
much synonymous with the Red Scare he
0:16:55.940,0:17:00.290
spent five years trying to expose
0:16:58.070,0:17:03.140
communists in the government and his
0:17:00.290,0:17:06.050
career is an anti-communist basically
0:17:03.140,0:17:08.390
begins in February 1950 when he gives a
0:17:06.050,0:17:12.920
speech where he declares that he has a
0:17:08.390,0:17:15.140
list of 205 sorry 205 known members of
0:17:12.920,0:17:18.079
the Communist Party who were quote
0:17:15.140,0:17:20.570
working and shaping policy unquote in
0:17:18.079,0:17:23.120
the State Department and the next month
0:17:20.570,0:17:25.130
the Senate launched an investigation but
0:17:23.120,0:17:27.709
they don’t find any proof of any
0:17:25.130,0:17:29.900
subversive activity and actually at the
0:17:27.709,0:17:32.360
beginning many of his colleagues both
0:17:29.900,0:17:34.790
Democratic and Republican including
0:17:32.360,0:17:37.790
President Dwight Eisenhower they don’t
0:17:34.790,0:17:39.860
like him or the tactics he’s using but
0:17:37.790,0:17:41.720
McCarthy continues his red-baiting
0:17:39.860,0:17:44.510
techniques and in nineteen
0:17:41.720,0:17:46.610
at the beginning of his second term as
0:17:44.510,0:17:48.980
Senator he’s put in charge of the
0:17:46.610,0:17:51.530
Committee on government operations and
0:17:48.980,0:17:53.720
this position allows him to launch even
0:17:51.530,0:17:55.940
more investigations of the alleged
0:17:53.720,0:17:59.750
communist infiltration of the government
0:17:55.940,0:18:01.820
so he has even more power and over the
0:17:59.750,0:18:05.090
course of several hearings McCarthy
0:18:01.820,0:18:08.000
interrogated these witnesses extremely
0:18:05.090,0:18:10.010
aggressively and it can be considered as
0:18:08.000,0:18:12.500
a direct violation of their civil rights
0:18:10.010,0:18:14.539
and although there’s little to no
0:18:12.500,0:18:16.640
evidence of espionage more than two
0:18:14.539,0:18:19.190
thousand government employees lost their
0:18:16.640,0:18:22.130
jobs as a result of his investigations
0:18:19.190,0:18:24.260
which is so like two thousand people
0:18:22.130,0:18:29.990
over the course of a few years
0:18:24.260,0:18:31.640
it’s an insane yes like okay the thing
0:18:29.990,0:18:34.220
is when you’re saying this I’m gonna go
0:18:31.640,0:18:38.030
back to 1984 so you know and I if you’ve
0:18:34.220,0:18:42.830
read 1984 for the viewers who have not
0:18:38.030,0:18:44.270
read 1984 it’s a big um not a big novel
0:18:42.830,0:18:46.070
but it’s a it’s a really really
0:18:44.270,0:18:47.720
important novel that I think they may
0:18:46.070,0:18:49.850
call high school most high schoolers
0:18:47.720,0:18:51.980
read and it basically is supposed to
0:18:49.850,0:18:54.799
talk about a dystopian society that
0:18:51.980,0:18:56.900
would result with the rise of is it
0:18:54.799,0:19:01.220
communism it’s like government regime
0:18:56.900,0:19:02.780
that’s like Aryan totalitarian and
0:19:01.220,0:19:08.780
they’re always inspecting you but the
0:19:02.780,0:19:10.520
last scene in it spoiler the last one of
0:19:08.780,0:19:14.000
the last scenes is they basically like
0:19:10.520,0:19:16.039
torture the main character with his
0:19:14.000,0:19:18.350
greatest fear to get him to admit to
0:19:16.039,0:19:20.600
crimes that he didn’t necessarily commit
0:19:18.350,0:19:22.580
but also like betray like his loved ones
0:19:20.600,0:19:25.850
and they like play on like your greatest
0:19:22.580,0:19:27.620
fears and that just feels like this book
0:19:25.850,0:19:29.870
that is like totalitarian and like
0:19:27.620,0:19:32.059
anti-communist anti-surveillance and
0:19:29.870,0:19:34.370
then the tactics that were being used by
0:19:32.059,0:19:36.500
McCarthy where you literally interrogate
0:19:34.370,0:19:38.990
so I don’t know what extent so you get
0:19:36.500,0:19:43.309
them to admit to things that maybe they
0:19:38.990,0:19:46.610
didn’t even do I like it’s well yeah no
0:19:43.309,0:19:49.190
you’re completely right like the court
0:19:46.610,0:19:55.309
the legal system was not just at all
0:19:49.190,0:19:58.159
like there’s no evidence and people like
0:19:55.309,0:19:59.990
are being defended properly and no one’s
0:19:58.159,0:20:01.580
listening like literally as soon as you
0:19:59.990,0:20:05.029
hear the word communism like you’re just
0:20:01.580,0:20:06.860
painted as evil and as a traitor to the
0:20:05.029,0:20:11.480
country and so no one takes it seriously
0:20:06.860,0:20:13.820
but again like I mean yeah McCarthy had
0:20:11.480,0:20:16.039
like a huge like a lot of people
0:20:13.820,0:20:17.779
supported him I guess in politics people
0:20:16.039,0:20:20.090
just were scared to get on his bad side
0:20:17.779,0:20:21.980
because they’d be his next victim but
0:20:20.090,0:20:25.190
the American people like were really
0:20:21.980,0:20:26.450
scared of a revolution in their country
0:20:25.190,0:20:29.210
and then they thought their way of life
0:20:26.450,0:20:32.299
is going to be disrupted and again
0:20:29.210,0:20:33.740
they’re hearing like what the press is
0:20:32.299,0:20:36.889
telling them what the government is
0:20:33.740,0:20:40.249
telling them about communism we don’t
0:20:36.889,0:20:41.570
know I don’t know how the picture was
0:20:40.249,0:20:43.610
painted of course it’s going to be a
0:20:41.570,0:20:45.320
bias about it but yeah like people are
0:20:43.610,0:20:47.600
just scared like did you just hear the
0:20:45.320,0:20:49.220
word communism and you automatically are
0:20:47.600,0:20:53.749
just horrified so yeah it’s like the
0:20:49.220,0:20:55.460
pair lost in 1984 is insane horrifying
0:20:53.749,0:20:58.610
this is real life this actually happened
0:20:55.460,0:21:02.450
in the US this is a fictional novel and
0:20:58.610,0:21:05.629
and not that far like away I go this is
0:21:02.450,0:21:08.690
it’s less than a hundred years yeah this
0:21:05.629,0:21:09.710
is in the 1950s like it’s really not
0:21:08.690,0:21:13.610
that long ago
0:21:09.710,0:21:16.309
and yeah okay so this kind of brings me
0:21:13.610,0:21:19.220
to my next point this I had never heard
0:21:16.309,0:21:21.590
of this but McCarthy apparently he
0:21:19.220,0:21:24.169
didn’t just attack communists in the
0:21:21.590,0:21:26.419
government he also attacked the lgbtq+
0:21:24.169,0:21:28.999
community and what would later be known
0:21:26.419,0:21:31.639
as the lavender scare I really had never
0:21:28.999,0:21:35.869
heard about this but basically McCarthy
0:21:31.639,0:21:38.210
argued that LGBT lgbtq+ employees could
0:21:35.869,0:21:40.210
be blackmailed by enemy agents over
0:21:38.210,0:21:44.720
their sexuality and could thereby
0:21:40.210,0:21:46.879
betrayed national secrets in 1950 Senate
0:21:44.720,0:21:48.950
Republicans write up a report saying
0:21:46.879,0:21:50.840
that gay and lesbian government workers
0:21:48.950,0:21:54.440
were a potential moral threat to the
0:21:50.840,0:21:57.320
government and later in 1953 President
0:21:54.440,0:22:00.080
Eisenhower signed executive order one
0:21:57.320,0:22:02.600
zero four five zero which allowed the
0:22:00.080,0:22:04.759
government to track down gay and lesbian
0:22:02.600,0:22:06.889
government employees and fire them due
0:22:04.759,0:22:09.809
to the labeling of sexual pervasion
0:22:06.889,0:22:13.859
as an undesirable trait for employment
0:22:09.809,0:22:17.219
which this is horrifying so several
0:22:13.859,0:22:19.710
employees either were fired or they
0:22:17.219,0:22:21.809
resigned out of fear and variance
0:22:19.710,0:22:23.450
various surveillance measures were
0:22:21.809,0:22:26.219
instituted to try and track down
0:22:23.450,0:22:29.099
employees intimate habits like this is a
0:22:26.219,0:22:32.070
violation of privacy and civil rights
0:22:29.099,0:22:34.979
civil liberties I’m like every level
0:22:32.070,0:22:36.899
yeah everything it’s like the things
0:22:34.979,0:22:39.840
that we criticize with other countries
0:22:36.899,0:22:41.519
that have communist regimes and like
0:22:39.840,0:22:45.080
we’re literally doing the same exact
0:22:41.519,0:22:48.809
thing in order to smash down communism
0:22:45.080,0:22:51.479
yeah exactly like oh my gosh it’s just I
0:22:48.809,0:22:53.969
can’t believe we got away with this but
0:22:51.479,0:22:56.849
the most horrifying aspect of us is that
0:22:53.969,0:22:59.820
this governmental van on lgbtq+
0:22:56.849,0:23:01.440
employees wasn’t officially lifted until
0:22:59.820,0:23:04.830
President Bill Clinton’s administration
0:23:01.440,0:23:07.349
in the 1990s so this is this like
0:23:04.830,0:23:09.629
executive order was in place for a very
0:23:07.349,0:23:11.489
long time I don’t know if everyone acted
0:23:09.629,0:23:15.149
upon it but it’s still like the
0:23:11.489,0:23:19.799
government had the right to like so yeah
0:23:15.149,0:23:21.570
to spy on you and see like like go into
0:23:19.799,0:23:23.729
your intimate personal life like that’s
0:23:21.570,0:23:26.070
such a breach of privacy it’s so
0:23:23.729,0:23:26.609
horrifying and yeah just like a friendly
0:23:26.070,0:23:28.169
reminder
0:23:26.609,0:23:30.330
everyone it wasn’t until a month ago
0:23:28.169,0:23:33.929
that the Supreme Court ruled that the
0:23:30.330,0:23:36.059
1964 Civil Rights Act protects lgbtq+
0:23:33.929,0:23:38.789
employees from discrimination based on
0:23:36.059,0:23:40.080
sex so there’s so so much work that
0:23:38.789,0:23:44.969
needs to be done
0:23:40.080,0:23:47.309
okay there’s kind of a theme yeah I mean
0:23:44.969,0:23:52.019
history is like progressive through time
0:23:47.309,0:23:53.999
right so there’s always work that’s true
0:23:52.019,0:23:55.559
but yeah like I guess the reason I
0:23:53.999,0:23:57.450
pointed out is because like when we talk
0:23:55.559,0:23:59.849
about the Red Scare it’s easy to dismiss
0:23:57.450,0:24:02.159
it as like oh it was so long ago but
0:23:59.849,0:24:04.469
like we see we still see the effects up
0:24:02.159,0:24:06.299
until recent history you’re right
0:24:04.469,0:24:08.849
actually there’s a really good quote and
0:24:06.299,0:24:11.580
I forget who said it I will look it up
0:24:08.849,0:24:15.809
and like recoat this later but it was
0:24:11.580,0:24:17.789
something like with history we often
0:24:15.809,0:24:18.440
think that the future is closer than it
0:24:17.789,0:24:20.779
is and
0:24:18.440,0:24:23.149
passes further away and that’s so true
0:24:20.779,0:24:26.509
like we think that we’re more further
0:24:23.149,0:24:28.220
ahead with being accepting and open to
0:24:26.509,0:24:30.200
people and world peace than we actually
0:24:28.220,0:24:33.710
are we don’t see like the work that we
0:24:30.200,0:24:35.629
have to do still and we think that the
0:24:33.710,0:24:37.720
terrible events in our past are a lot
0:24:35.629,0:24:40.370
further back than they actually are I
0:24:37.720,0:24:42.799
love that quote so much that’s such a
0:24:40.370,0:24:51.710
that’s so true though like really if you
0:24:42.799,0:24:53.269
think about it this so – I’m like oh my
0:24:51.710,0:24:54.740
god but yeah that’s how it’s important
0:24:53.269,0:24:56.570
to talk about history because it’s
0:24:54.740,0:24:58.700
really not that long ago it has
0:24:56.570,0:25:01.309
obviously has lasting effects on our
0:24:58.700,0:25:04.789
society today so yeah but I guess to
0:25:01.309,0:25:08.389
continue obviously the Red Scare has to
0:25:04.789,0:25:11.330
come to an end and so people were able
0:25:08.389,0:25:13.850
to overlook Senator McCarthy attacks on
0:25:11.330,0:25:15.830
government employees and other elites in
0:25:13.850,0:25:17.690
the US but people immediately lost
0:25:15.830,0:25:20.360
support for him once he decided to go
0:25:17.690,0:25:23.929
after members of the Armed Services so
0:25:20.360,0:25:26.090
in April 1954 millions of Americans
0:25:23.929,0:25:28.850
watched as Senator McCarthy attacked
0:25:26.090,0:25:30.950
members of the army and it’s legal TV on
0:25:28.850,0:25:32.929
live television and almost immediately
0:25:30.950,0:25:35.149
the sense of I guess like
0:25:32.929,0:25:37.759
invulnerability that had surrounded him
0:25:35.149,0:25:39.679
disappears and there are pretty much two
0:25:37.759,0:25:42.919
reasons for his downfall
0:25:39.679,0:25:44.870
so first the Army’s legal counsel was
0:25:42.919,0:25:47.960
able to undermine his credibility
0:25:44.870,0:25:50.029
by showing evidence that Senator
0:25:47.960,0:25:51.649
McCarthy had tried to win preferential
0:25:50.029,0:25:54.470
treatment for his age when they were
0:25:51.649,0:25:58.309
drafted in the war and that’s like super
0:25:54.470,0:26:00.799
I think yeah that’s illegal and not good
0:25:58.309,0:26:03.230
at all so they’re like okay this dude’s
0:26:00.799,0:26:05.539
not good yeah wait can we talk about
0:26:03.230,0:26:08.870
what that means like in more layman’s
0:26:05.539,0:26:11.450
terms when his aides and his colleagues
0:26:08.870,0:26:14.659
like his like staff they were drafted
0:26:11.450,0:26:16.490
into the war I guess I guess is World
0:26:14.659,0:26:17.840
War two this is like showing evidence in
0:26:16.490,0:26:20.450
the past when they were drafted into the
0:26:17.840,0:26:23.419
war he was like oh I want them to be in
0:26:20.450,0:26:25.399
like easy positions or I want them to be
0:26:23.419,0:26:27.470
like stationed in the u.s. somewhere but
0:26:25.399,0:26:28.970
he basically asks the army to be like
0:26:27.470,0:26:31.460
hey like I don’t want them to get hurt
0:26:28.970,0:26:32.300
can you put them somewhere nice and
0:26:31.460,0:26:35.960
cushy
0:26:32.300,0:26:38.330
you like Wow okay and we were being
0:26:35.960,0:26:41.540
drafted like it station all over the
0:26:38.330,0:26:43.340
world yeah so secondly of the American
0:26:41.540,0:26:46.100
people were able to see for the first
0:26:43.340,0:26:48.560
time on live television how Senator
0:26:46.100,0:26:50.660
McCarthy intimidated witnesses and gave
0:26:48.560,0:26:52.760
evasive responses when questioned
0:26:50.660,0:26:55.460
because people I mean they didn’t really
0:26:52.760,0:26:56.990
have televised court like that this was
0:26:55.460,0:27:00.410
the first time the American people were
0:26:56.990,0:27:01.640
actually seeing him in work and like you
0:27:00.410,0:27:04.640
know doing his thing and they’re like
0:27:01.640,0:27:10.310
this is awful like this guy’s horrible
0:27:04.640,0:27:11.330
and so I guess one of the most one of
0:27:10.310,0:27:14.090
the things people remember the most
0:27:11.330,0:27:16.370
about Senator McCarthy is when he
0:27:14.090,0:27:19.550
started to attack a young army lawyer
0:27:16.370,0:27:23.420
and the Army’s chief counsel Joseph
0:27:19.550,0:27:26.510
Welch Welch famously shouted have you no
0:27:23.420,0:27:29.870
decency sir at long last have you left
0:27:26.510,0:27:35.980
no sense of decency which I get in like
0:27:29.870,0:27:38.030
nineteen fifties this is the biggest
0:27:35.980,0:27:40.340
like insult
0:27:38.030,0:27:42.680
ever just like oh you have no sense of
0:27:40.340,0:27:45.320
decency live and yeah like this
0:27:42.680,0:27:54.590
soundbite is really popular it’s in this
0:27:45.320,0:28:00.110
song caught their eyes by jay-z oh my
0:27:54.590,0:28:02.510
gosh that’s a guy from the doozie you
0:28:00.110,0:28:06.800
should link it in the show notes in our
0:28:02.510,0:28:09.320
description where the original soundbite
0:28:06.800,0:28:11.000
you could link both I was thinking the
0:28:09.320,0:28:22.490
original sound might put the song to
0:28:11.000,0:28:25.580
that’s fine you know but yeah so that’s
0:28:22.490,0:28:28.640
like a really famous quote and so after
0:28:25.580,0:28:30.470
this this any like they also do support
0:28:28.640,0:28:31.760
for McCarthy they’re like finally we can
0:28:30.470,0:28:34.490
go after him we hate him
0:28:31.760,0:28:37.880
they vote to condemn Senator McCarthy
0:28:34.490,0:28:40.400
for his quote inexcusable reprehensible
0:28:37.880,0:28:43.160
vulgar and insulting conduct that was
0:28:40.400,0:28:44.519
unbecoming of a senator unquote and his
0:28:43.160,0:28:46.820
five-year long reign of
0:28:44.519,0:28:49.830
are finally came crashing down and
0:28:46.820,0:28:51.809
Senator McCarthy would keep his position
0:28:49.830,0:28:54.649
as Senator but he pretty much lost all
0:28:51.809,0:28:57.209
of his power and he actually died in
0:28:54.649,0:28:59.729
1957 at the age of 48
0:28:57.209,0:29:01.469
due to acute hepatitis and liver or
0:28:59.729,0:29:05.580
liver failure as a result of
0:29:01.469,0:29:07.739
complications from alcoholism so he like
0:29:05.580,0:29:11.429
pretty much dies right after he lived he
0:29:07.739,0:29:14.700
leaves office and that’s the fall of
0:29:11.429,0:29:17.009
McCarthyism and basically the right
0:29:14.700,0:29:20.909
scare kind of after his reign of terror
0:29:17.009,0:29:25.559
ends people because like you know it’s
0:29:20.909,0:29:27.059
not red-baiting it has less power it’s
0:29:25.559,0:29:29.729
not as common anymore people are like
0:29:27.059,0:29:32.070
okay actually this is horrible and maybe
0:29:29.729,0:29:35.039
we should reconsider what we’re doing
0:29:32.070,0:29:39.059
and so the Red Scare finally come kind
0:29:35.039,0:29:41.099
of kind of quiets down and communism is
0:29:39.059,0:29:43.499
still obviously the cold war lasts
0:29:41.099,0:29:46.799
forever but I guess in government and
0:29:43.499,0:29:49.529
attacking other federal employees and
0:29:46.799,0:29:51.869
even like Hollywood actors were also
0:29:49.529,0:29:54.479
tagged to like it was crazy so yeah the
0:29:51.869,0:29:56.729
type of tactic of red-baiting quiets
0:29:54.479,0:29:57.209
down but we still are very much in the
0:29:56.729,0:30:00.089
Cold War
0:29:57.209,0:30:03.989
um so Soviet Union is so very much our
0:30:00.089,0:30:06.359
enemy and while a small number of the
0:30:03.989,0:30:08.489
accused communists may have been guilty
0:30:06.359,0:30:10.709
of conspiring to revolt against the
0:30:08.489,0:30:13.320
government the vast majority of victims
0:30:10.709,0:30:16.469
of the Red Scare were falsely accused or
0:30:13.320,0:30:18.749
had not done nothing more than exercise
0:30:16.469,0:30:21.119
their constitutional right to join a
0:30:18.749,0:30:23.789
political party and the thousands of
0:30:21.119,0:30:26.519
alleged communist sympathizers had their
0:30:23.789,0:30:28.709
lives and their reputations completely
0:30:26.519,0:30:31.200
destroyed they were attacked by law
0:30:28.709,0:30:33.869
enforcement revoked of basic civil
0:30:31.200,0:30:36.389
liberties they’re alienated from their
0:30:33.869,0:30:38.729
families and their friends and they’re
0:30:36.389,0:30:43.320
fired from their jobs so this ruined so
0:30:38.729,0:30:45.779
many people’s entire life and again the
0:30:43.320,0:30:48.209
word communism was turned into term that
0:30:45.779,0:30:51.029
Americans would immediately react to
0:30:48.209,0:30:52.710
with disgust or fear regardless of
0:30:51.029,0:30:54.599
whether or not they actually understood
0:30:52.710,0:30:56.849
what it means and you can still see
0:30:54.599,0:30:57.910
similar reactions today with both the
0:30:56.849,0:31:00.820
terms communist
0:30:57.910,0:31:03.280
them in socialism even though at least
0:31:00.820,0:31:07.090
me personally I really didn’t understand
0:31:03.280,0:31:09.070
the ideology until more recently and of
0:31:07.090,0:31:11.860
course I’m not trying to push like any
0:31:09.070,0:31:15.430
political views on listeners I do think
0:31:11.860,0:31:17.560
it really is important like to educate
0:31:15.430,0:31:19.180
yourself and take the time to understand
0:31:17.560,0:31:21.250
these concepts whether you agree with
0:31:19.180,0:31:22.930
them or not and the same thing goes for
0:31:21.250,0:31:25.930
capitalism like you should educate
0:31:22.930,0:31:28.570
yourself on what this really means and
0:31:25.930,0:31:30.370
understand it well because like if we
0:31:28.570,0:31:32.800
don’t understand something it’s super
0:31:30.370,0:31:36.730
easy to be swept up in a mass hysteria
0:31:32.800,0:31:39.220
and be overcome by fear but knowledge is
0:31:36.730,0:31:41.950
power and it can help keep us rational
0:31:39.220,0:31:43.690
so I think that it’s really one of the
0:31:41.950,0:31:46.570
main lessons that we can learn from the
0:31:43.690,0:31:49.270
Red Scare and that’s how we make sure we
0:31:46.570,0:31:52.900
don’t repeat this really shameful part
0:31:49.270,0:31:57.670
of history in the future and yeah that’s
0:31:52.900,0:32:00.400
pretty much summary of the Red Scare I
0:31:57.670,0:32:04.150
love it know very nicely said very
0:32:00.400,0:32:08.320
nicely wrapped up in a bow everyone
0:32:04.150,0:32:10.110
hopefully uh yeah hopefully you guys
0:32:08.320,0:32:14.040
learn something new
0:32:10.110,0:32:33.779
we’ll see you again next time
0:32:14.040,0:32:33.779
[Music]
How Did We Not Know That 