The Partition of India

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Show Notes

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hello everybody and welcome back to

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another episode of how did we not know

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that

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i’m nat i’m jack

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and today uh jack is talking about india

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i think

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if i remember correctly i think i saw

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your notes

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this is a highly recommended episode by

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two of my friends one of our patrons

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isaac another shout out and

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yeah i’m really excited to cover this

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topic because it’s a huge

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turning point in history for basically

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the rest of the world

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to well maybe not the rest of the world

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i actually counted the us

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it’s a pretty big event i think it

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affects a lot of things and

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the topic i’m talking about today it’s

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the partition of india

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why did i let me just start with that

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talk about the partition of india

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and it’s a significant event because

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it’s the

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first of the

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decolonization efforts of great britain

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like that imperial power this is the

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first

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once we see this yeah when india again

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it’s like a domino

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exactly after that you’ve said about you

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got to yeah

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the partition of india here we go

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just to give a quick overview the

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petition

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to give a quick overview the partition

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of india

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uh happened in 1947 and that was the

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division

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of british india into two independent

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dominion states

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india and pakistan so

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let’s reel it back uh to

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the 1900s okay early 1900s is the end of

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world war one so the current state of

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india

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at that time is it’s still

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under british rule so great britain has

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been ruling india for around 200 years

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at this point

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and the rule started 200 years sorry

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that i didn’t realize it was

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so long yeah well that’s just the

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british so the portuguese actually

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also came in a little earlier so they

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had been under

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um western rule for 300 years

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but the last 200 were british yeah

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i didn’t know that wow it was a while

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um so yeah there you go if you didn’t

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know

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right so the rule started with the

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british east india company which was a

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company

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and then it was later directly ruled by

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the british crown

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and that time period where india is

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ruled directly by the british crown is

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known as the british raj

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people in india are growing very unhappy

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about economic problems that

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were a result of rules put on them by

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the british

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and so some of the things that they

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would do

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is the people or the british would

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tax indians at extremely high rates and

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then they would use the revenue

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from taxes that the indians just paid

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to buy indian goods and then export

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those goods for more

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profit the profit they made from those

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goods that they were exporting would

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then

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go to funding for england

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it wouldn’t get reinvested so they’re

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making all this money from india but

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nothing gets reinvested they were also

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very heavily taxed after world war one

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to pay for the british war efforts and

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reparations

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and um indians were also forced by

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conscription to serve in the british

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indian army

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and if you don’t know what conscription

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is that’s basically a draft so many

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people in india

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felt that they did not want to be ruled

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by the british and they wanted to be

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self-governing

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now there was some tension between

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hindus and muslims throughout history

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that would lead to conflict but for the

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most part hindus and muslims sikhs and

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christians could all live together

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peacefully

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and if anyone doesn’t know what hinduism

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is or

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islam or christianity and sikhism

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those are religions yeah for the most

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part they could live together peaceful

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however

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one of the strategies that the british

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used to conquer india was to actually

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exploit those conflicts between those

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groups because then it would weaken the

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country as a whole

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now wow right so but because of this

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conflict between

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hindus and muslims uh became exacerbated

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and so in order to kind of separate

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those groups and keep them in order the

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british would often

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try to separate them with lines like

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drawing lines on maps

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for example in 1905 there was an event

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known as the partition of bengal

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which was done by lord kurzon who was

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at the time the viceroy of india and if

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anyone doesn’t know what a viceroy is

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that is the governor or a viceroy is a

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governor of a country established by a

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separate sovereign state

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so the vice from india is the governor

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that is usually british um and they’re

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appointed to

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serve and rule over that state and

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that participant of bengal was later

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canceled a few years later due to mass

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political protests

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and then we see many indian organized

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uprisings against the british government

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in the late 19th and early 20th

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centuries

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and this led to the british fearing

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further resistance

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and so they put in harsher policies

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towards indians so

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on april 13 1919 peaceful demonstrators

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came together at a park in the city of

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amritsar

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to protest british rule and

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at this event without warning the

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british general

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reginald dyer who entered the area with

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british indian

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army troops they blocked off the largest

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exit and then opened fire on the unarmed

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crowd

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and then dyer had them continue to fire

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on the crowds

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even when the people started to flee

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and he did not stop until all the

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artillery had been

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exhausted from his troops oh my god

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yeah so this resulted in 376

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deaths and around 1200 injured civilians

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later on dyer was tried for his crimes

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and he

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admitted that he ordered the attack for

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its moral effect

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on the people of the region and when

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they questioned him later as to why he

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didn’t cease fire

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he said that it would have made him look

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weak um

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and then yeah the british government

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later allowed him to resign

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but i don’t think he faced any

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persecution like any

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charges and that was uh

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that angered a lot of people in india

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right so

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um so this event later became known as

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the amritsar

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massacre and that massacre led to an

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increase in nationalist feelings across

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india and it had a profound effect on

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one of the movement’s leaders

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you might have heard of him mohandas

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gandhi who

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was now convinced that india needed to

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seek full independence from great

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britain

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yeah because before then with world war

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one he really supported great britain’s

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war efforts because he thought it would

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lead to

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um india’s independence but then after

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this he realized that

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or it would lead to partial independence

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but then after this mastery yeah we

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realized that no we need to get full

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independence

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uh so like he was thinking like oh like

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if we fight alongside them they’ll like

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give us

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more yeah and then that didn’t happen

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yeah also i have a question um

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it’s kind of like irrelevant but um

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like where does the caste system fall

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into this

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like did the british put that into place

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that was already there i don’t know i

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didn’t do research on that and it didn’t

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come up in my research so i don’t know

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if

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that was a british thing or an indian

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i’m gonna say

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i don’t think it was british introduced

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i would i would

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say my like my guess is probably not

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because you don’t see that in any other

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like british colonies yeah i think that

0:08:05.759,0:08:10.080
that might have been an

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african thing so after world war ii ends

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we’re in the year 1945 and the british

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has lost a lot of money in world war ii

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and just a side note although

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great britain was on the side of the

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allies that won the war great britain

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really didn’t do that much

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um because it was really the soviet

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union in the united states together that

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defeated nazi germany

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and it was almost entirely the united

0:08:36.399,0:08:41.440
states that defeated japan

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so uh it was a bit like world war ii was

0:08:41.440,0:08:46.720
kind of embarrassing for england because

0:08:44.080,0:08:48.399
they suffered greatly financially and

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then

0:08:48.399,0:08:52.480
they also it was just like the british

0:08:51.120,0:08:54.800
imperial power was not

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as strong as they used to be and that

0:08:54.800,0:08:58.480
was very clear after the war

0:08:56.640,0:09:00.080
so they suffered greatly financially and

0:08:58.480,0:09:01.519
we start to see the collapse of the

0:09:00.080,0:09:03.440
british imperial power

0:09:01.519,0:09:04.720
with the growing resistance efforts and

0:09:03.440,0:09:06.399
conflict in india

0:09:04.720,0:09:08.399
they can’t afford to keep control of

0:09:06.399,0:09:09.279
india anymore so they have no choice but

0:09:08.399,0:09:12.320
to withdraw

0:09:09.279,0:09:13.600
in february of 1947 the british

0:09:12.320,0:09:16.959
government announces

0:09:13.600,0:09:19.600
that it will withdraw from india

0:09:16.959,0:09:20.000
and now that the british have agreed to

0:09:19.600,0:09:22.720
leave

0:09:20.000,0:09:24.480
india the reality of what a sovereign

0:09:22.720,0:09:25.680
indian state will look like starts to

0:09:24.480,0:09:29.120
come to reality

0:09:25.680,0:09:33.680
and this is where we see some conflict

0:09:29.120,0:09:37.519
ex like conflict what is it called

0:09:33.680,0:09:40.959
get worse some conflict in this area

0:09:37.519,0:09:43.200
get worse right and then um yeah okay so

0:09:40.959,0:09:46.320
political negotiations between

0:09:43.200,0:09:49.600
british and indian leaders followed

0:09:46.320,0:09:51.839
the announcement so that starts to erase

0:09:49.600,0:09:53.200
and i just wrote these notes very badly

0:09:51.839,0:09:54.399
so that’s why i’m like tripping on my

0:09:53.200,0:09:58.320
words

0:09:54.399,0:10:00.959
so there were two

0:09:58.320,0:10:02.160
main representatives that negotiated

0:10:00.959,0:10:04.640
with the british

0:10:02.160,0:10:05.440
on what like the newly independent india

0:10:04.640,0:10:08.720
would look like

0:10:05.440,0:10:11.760
and one of them was

0:10:08.720,0:10:14.959
here we go javon

0:10:11.760,0:10:18.399
nehru yes um next up

0:10:14.959,0:10:21.760
nice one

0:10:18.399,0:10:24.079
and javar halal nehru who represented

0:10:21.760,0:10:27.760
the indian national congress party

0:10:24.079,0:10:28.560
and muhammad ali jannah serving as

0:10:27.760,0:10:32.160
representative

0:10:28.560,0:10:36.160
of the muslim league so muhammad ali

0:10:32.160,0:10:38.000
jina was concerned with muslims

0:10:36.160,0:10:40.320
was concerned that muslims would be

0:10:38.000,0:10:41.120
politically disenfranchised in a hindu

0:10:40.320,0:10:43.519
majority

0:10:41.120,0:10:44.399
india and he called for a muslim

0:10:43.519,0:10:48.079
homeland

0:10:44.399,0:10:50.240
while javar halal nehru

0:10:48.079,0:10:53.440
insisted upon a united india that

0:10:50.240,0:10:56.240
encompassed the entire subcontinent

0:10:53.440,0:10:57.440
so now the question was not whether or

0:10:56.240,0:10:59.200
not india would become

0:10:57.440,0:11:01.040
independent but as to whether the

0:10:59.200,0:11:02.240
country would become one or more

0:11:01.040,0:11:04.160
independent states

0:11:02.240,0:11:05.920
oh sorry i just have a question like

0:11:04.160,0:11:09.760
before we

0:11:05.920,0:11:11.440
before you keep going i guess i so like

0:11:09.760,0:11:13.279
great britain literally just got up and

0:11:11.440,0:11:14.079
left peacefully or are you gonna get

0:11:13.279,0:11:16.480
into

0:11:14.079,0:11:17.760
that or like they just left peacefully

0:11:16.480,0:11:20.640
what was like

0:11:17.760,0:11:21.920
why did gandhi do like he had all these

0:11:20.640,0:11:24.800
hunger strikes right

0:11:21.920,0:11:25.839
and i thought that’s why yes gandhi led

0:11:24.800,0:11:27.519
a lot of

0:11:25.839,0:11:29.360
hunger strikes and the quit india

0:11:27.519,0:11:30.959
movement and that was really

0:11:29.360,0:11:32.880
great to see all these people coming

0:11:30.959,0:11:36.160
together to protest british rule

0:11:32.880,0:11:37.279
but the reality was that the british

0:11:36.160,0:11:40.480
were leaving because

0:11:37.279,0:11:42.160
economically it just wasn’t like

0:11:40.480,0:11:45.760
continuing to hold their imperial

0:11:42.160,0:11:47.600
powers was not working in combination

0:11:45.760,0:11:51.279
with the uprisings and

0:11:47.600,0:11:54.959
the lack of monetary funds

0:11:51.279,0:11:58.560
the british decided yeah okay okay

0:11:54.959,0:12:03.279
all right cool thanks you’re welcome

0:11:58.560,0:12:03.279
um okay so

0:12:04.480,0:12:09.360
right so hindu muslim antagonism over

0:12:07.279,0:12:13.120
political power started to increase

0:12:09.360,0:12:16.880
in late 1946 killing up to 7 000 people

0:12:13.120,0:12:19.760
this is just leading up to the

0:12:16.880,0:12:20.240
independence of india talking about a

0:12:19.760,0:12:23.440
huge

0:12:20.240,0:12:25.279
number right yeah the rebellions

0:12:23.440,0:12:26.480
yeah not they weren’t even rebellions

0:12:25.279,0:12:28.880
but just the the

0:12:26.480,0:12:30.399
conflict between the two groups was

0:12:28.880,0:12:32.959
really severe and there

0:12:30.399,0:12:35.760
i was reading british documents of

0:12:32.959,0:12:37.200
reports from the viceroy back to

0:12:35.760,0:12:39.519
england and back to the queen or

0:12:37.200,0:12:42.480
whatever back to whatever

0:12:39.519,0:12:42.959
political parliament whatever and yeah

0:12:42.480,0:12:46.240
yeah

0:12:42.959,0:12:47.120
um they would just detail the fights

0:12:46.240,0:12:50.320
between

0:12:47.120,0:12:54.639
muslims and hindus and

0:12:50.320,0:12:58.240
like the antagonism between the groups

0:12:54.639,0:13:00.720
it’s pretty pretty violent so

0:12:58.240,0:13:01.600
anyways by the time the last viceroy

0:13:00.720,0:13:04.639
lord louis

0:13:01.600,0:13:06.240
mountbatten arrives in india it became

0:13:04.639,0:13:09.040
clear that there needed to be a

0:13:06.240,0:13:11.360
partition else they risked a descent

0:13:09.040,0:13:13.440
into chaos and communal war

0:13:11.360,0:13:15.120
before power could even be transferred

0:13:13.440,0:13:18.160
from british to india

0:13:15.120,0:13:20.720
and so right

0:13:18.160,0:13:21.920
and originally prime british prime

0:13:20.720,0:13:23.920
minister

0:13:21.920,0:13:25.600
yeah i’m sorry originally british prime

0:13:23.920,0:13:28.800
minister clement atlee

0:13:25.600,0:13:30.800
set the independence date to be in 1948

0:13:28.800,0:13:32.320
to provide more time to sort out the

0:13:30.800,0:13:33.600
partition and what that was going to

0:13:32.320,0:13:35.839
look like

0:13:33.600,0:13:38.000
however given the growing conflict

0:13:35.839,0:13:38.720
between hindus and muslims over the

0:13:38.000,0:13:41.360
partition

0:13:38.720,0:13:43.680
the british were really eager to get out

0:13:41.360,0:13:45.040
of their subcontinental issues

0:13:43.680,0:13:47.600
and they advanced the date of

0:13:45.040,0:13:50.160
independence to august 1947

0:13:47.600,0:13:52.480
which was about a year earlier than they

0:13:50.160,0:13:55.519
had originally planned

0:13:52.480,0:13:58.880
wow yeah so this

0:13:55.519,0:14:00.839
is going to be messy let’s see how that

0:13:58.880,0:14:02.959
went

0:14:00.839,0:14:05.440
um

0:14:02.959,0:14:08.959
1947 the plans for independence were

0:14:05.440,0:14:12.639
announced over radio to the public

0:14:08.959,0:14:16.320
now partition gets created

0:14:12.639,0:14:19.440
so after the announcement is made

0:14:16.320,0:14:20.480
they left the monumental the british let

0:14:19.440,0:14:22.000
me clarify

0:14:20.480,0:14:23.920
after the announcement was made the

0:14:22.000,0:14:25.519
british left the monumental task of

0:14:23.920,0:14:27.920
mapping up the partition

0:14:25.519,0:14:28.880
to a british lawyer named cyril

0:14:27.920,0:14:31.680
radcliffe

0:14:28.880,0:14:35.199
and he was given about six weeks to

0:14:31.680,0:14:38.959
figure it out and set the new borders

0:14:35.199,0:14:41.120
oh my god yeah that’s it

0:14:38.959,0:14:43.519
that’s very rushed i feel like it’s very

0:14:41.120,0:14:46.560
fast i’ve had school assignments that

0:14:43.519,0:14:46.560
have given me more time

0:14:46.720,0:14:52.320
um so radcliffe

0:14:50.240,0:14:54.639
used outdated maps that showed the

0:14:52.320,0:14:55.199
percentage of muslims and hindus in each

0:14:54.639,0:14:58.320
region

0:14:55.199,0:15:01.040
and then he hastily drew lines on the

0:14:58.320,0:15:03.279
map to roughly form a political border

0:15:01.040,0:15:05.519
where none had existed before and this

0:15:03.279,0:15:08.000
became known as the radcliff line

0:15:05.519,0:15:09.760
so areas with the majority muslim

0:15:08.000,0:15:10.560
population in the northwest and

0:15:09.760,0:15:13.440
northeast

0:15:10.560,0:15:15.120
were designated as pakistan while hindu

0:15:13.440,0:15:17.519
majority areas became

0:15:15.120,0:15:18.959
india now the big problem with that is

0:15:17.519,0:15:21.040
that hindus muslim

0:15:18.959,0:15:22.720
sikhs christians and others had lived

0:15:21.040,0:15:23.839
side by side in all parts of the

0:15:22.720,0:15:26.880
subcontinent

0:15:23.839,0:15:27.199
so many of the areas that he was looking

0:15:26.880,0:15:29.440
at

0:15:27.199,0:15:31.519
would sometimes be sixty percent muslim

0:15:29.440,0:15:35.120
forty percent hindu or vice versa

0:15:31.519,0:15:36.800
and it wasn’t super clear um

0:15:35.120,0:15:39.279
yeah it would fit into because

0:15:36.800,0:15:42.079
everyone’s intermixed

0:15:39.279,0:15:43.759
yeah yeah right so overnight people

0:15:42.079,0:15:47.040
literally overnight like this is

0:15:43.759,0:15:48.720
overnight people’s lives were turned

0:15:47.040,0:15:50.639
upside down and those who had

0:15:48.720,0:15:53.360
potentially grown up in that area for

0:15:50.639,0:15:56.160
centuries became religious minorities

0:15:53.360,0:15:58.959
living on the wrong side of a new border

0:15:56.160,0:16:01.680
so here we go the partition arrives

0:15:58.959,0:16:02.000
oh can you have commentary oh no that’s

0:16:01.680,0:16:05.440
just

0:16:02.000,0:16:07.199
i’m like that’s just i don’t know

0:16:05.440,0:16:08.720
yeah i keep going i’m just like this is

0:16:07.199,0:16:12.160
like ridiculous

0:16:08.720,0:16:15.600
yeah it’s a very realistic british guy

0:16:12.160,0:16:19.120
drew a line yeah yeah also like

0:16:15.600,0:16:22.399
not indian never lived there drew a line

0:16:19.120,0:16:24.000
yeah oh yeah it’s like the same thing

0:16:22.399,0:16:25.759
that happened with like korea

0:16:24.000,0:16:27.519
like it was like just two americans that

0:16:25.759,0:16:28.800
literally just drew a straight line and

0:16:27.519,0:16:32.079
then

0:16:28.800,0:16:35.360
let’s see how this yeah that’s

0:16:32.079,0:16:36.000
so frustrating yeah anyways okay so

0:16:35.360,0:16:39.279
august

0:16:36.000,0:16:41.120
on august 15 1947 india has officially

0:16:39.279,0:16:44.000
won its independence from the british

0:16:41.120,0:16:45.839
and is split into two new states that

0:16:44.000,0:16:47.120
would rule themselves known as india and

0:16:45.839,0:16:50.480
pakistan

0:16:47.120,0:16:52.560
which uh pakistan was actually split

0:16:50.480,0:16:55.279
into an east and west area

0:16:52.560,0:16:57.120
and side note that east pakistan later

0:16:55.279,0:17:00.070
becomes known as bangladesh

0:16:57.120,0:17:01.279
but that’s episode

0:17:00.070,0:17:04.640
[Music]

0:17:01.279,0:17:07.360
yeah wow so many it’s a huge like this

0:17:04.640,0:17:08.720
whole subcontinent is like so big so

0:17:07.360,0:17:11.439
exactly yeah and also

0:17:08.720,0:17:12.000
east and west very far away india the

0:17:11.439,0:17:14.959
country

0:17:12.000,0:17:18.000
india’s right between them so yeah we

0:17:14.959,0:17:21.120
won’t get into it today but

0:17:18.000,0:17:23.439
so the celebration was very short-lived

0:17:21.120,0:17:24.319
because the partition line was announced

0:17:23.439,0:17:25.839
two days later

0:17:24.319,0:17:27.360
and millions of people had to

0:17:25.839,0:17:29.120
frantically scramble to get to the

0:17:27.360,0:17:31.679
correct side

0:17:29.120,0:17:33.440
yeah yeah like so there’s like a huge

0:17:31.679,0:17:36.799
migration you’re like oh crap

0:17:33.440,0:17:40.400
like i’m under the biggest gotta go

0:17:36.799,0:17:42.320
one of them yeah so

0:17:40.400,0:17:44.720
hindus and sikhs fled to india while

0:17:42.320,0:17:47.600
muslims went the other way into pakistan

0:17:44.720,0:17:50.080
and up to 15 million people were

0:17:47.600,0:17:53.440
displaced and had to migrate

0:17:50.080,0:17:56.640
oh oh my god 15

0:17:53.440,0:18:00.640
million people 15 million but

0:17:56.640,0:18:02.720
many never made it so no

0:18:00.640,0:18:04.240
yeah here’s where it gets really really

0:18:02.720,0:18:06.960
really sad

0:18:04.240,0:18:09.200
um so during the migration many people

0:18:06.960,0:18:11.280
on both sides were attacked and killed

0:18:09.200,0:18:14.480
in their homes and neighborhoods

0:18:11.280,0:18:16.720
so people would hide in bushes and then

0:18:14.480,0:18:17.840
attack and kill those who were migrating

0:18:16.720,0:18:20.799
by foot

0:18:17.840,0:18:23.440
trains were packed to the brim with

0:18:20.799,0:18:27.360
refugees and during the journey

0:18:23.440,0:18:31.039
groups would stop the train and massacre

0:18:27.360,0:18:31.679
entire um what is it a carriage is it a

0:18:31.039,0:18:34.720
call to carry

0:18:31.679,0:18:37.200
yeah yeah yeah like a trainer

0:18:34.720,0:18:38.320
yeah they would just massacre an entire

0:18:37.200,0:18:40.240
train car

0:18:38.320,0:18:42.080
um sometimes the entire train and then

0:18:40.240,0:18:43.919
they would spare only the driver

0:18:42.080,0:18:47.120
so that he could bring the carriage of

0:18:43.919,0:18:49.440
corpses to the destination

0:18:47.120,0:18:50.880
terrible absolutely terrible they would

0:18:49.440,0:18:55.039
like

0:18:50.880,0:18:57.039
fire with people in them oh god

0:18:55.039,0:18:58.400
because it was just such conflict

0:18:57.039,0:19:02.160
between the two groups

0:18:58.400,0:19:02.880
and yeah oh yeah women and children were

0:19:02.160,0:19:05.440
assaulted

0:19:02.880,0:19:08.160
kidnapped raped killed and abducted in

0:19:05.440,0:19:10.480
huge numbers

0:19:08.160,0:19:12.480
not a small amount and men were making

0:19:10.480,0:19:14.080
women’s bodies the battleground of

0:19:12.480,0:19:16.400
community identity

0:19:14.080,0:19:17.200
the populations of entire villages were

0:19:16.400,0:19:19.760
executed

0:19:17.200,0:19:21.360
and the corpse were lining the roadsides

0:19:19.760,0:19:24.720
yeah it was bad and the british

0:19:21.360,0:19:26.160
knew that there was a lot of bloodshed

0:19:24.720,0:19:27.919
they knew about the trains they knew

0:19:26.160,0:19:28.640
about the massacres between hindu and

0:19:27.919,0:19:30.880
muslims

0:19:28.640,0:19:33.360
but since they were done with india they

0:19:30.880,0:19:36.160
left it up to them to deal with it

0:19:33.360,0:19:38.400
oh my god right not our problem even

0:19:36.160,0:19:39.919
though we literally changed the last two

0:19:38.400,0:19:43.200
hundred years of your history

0:19:39.919,0:19:46.160
and like right we just were like

0:19:43.200,0:19:47.679
yeah we did this live differences

0:19:46.160,0:19:50.320
between you guys so that we could have

0:19:47.679,0:19:53.120
an easier time ruling

0:19:50.320,0:19:53.679
anyways yeah so in the end this was the

0:19:53.120,0:19:56.080
la

0:19:53.679,0:19:58.160
uh yeah in the end this was the largest

0:19:56.080,0:19:59.200
forced migration of people that has ever

0:19:58.160,0:20:02.400
happened

0:19:59.200,0:20:05.280
and oh wow as a war famine so

0:20:02.400,0:20:07.039
a lot of migration yeah or famine but

0:20:05.280,0:20:10.320
this was

0:20:07.039,0:20:15.679
neither and it was just it was huge

0:20:10.320,0:20:17.840
some guy daniel read spiral

0:20:15.679,0:20:18.880
i know every time you said it though i

0:20:17.840,0:20:21.039
was like

0:20:18.880,0:20:23.919
oh my god what if they’re related i know

0:20:21.039,0:20:27.200
i didn’t i shouldn’t joke about it

0:20:23.919,0:20:30.320
yeah i looked it up i wonder

0:20:27.200,0:20:32.559
um no he’s yeah i think he’s okay but

0:20:30.320,0:20:35.200
anyway so overall an estimated

0:20:32.559,0:20:37.120
500 000 to 2 million people died and

0:20:35.200,0:20:39.200
their partition ranks among the worst

0:20:37.120,0:20:40.320
human tragedies of the 20th century

0:20:39.200,0:20:43.280
pretty sad

0:20:40.320,0:20:44.799
so let’s talk about conflict today

0:20:43.280,0:20:47.200
between

0:20:44.799,0:20:49.039
india and pakistan because there is

0:20:47.200,0:20:52.159
still a lot of conflict after

0:20:49.039,0:20:52.480
the partition they do not yeah they’re

0:20:52.159,0:20:54.799
not

0:20:52.480,0:20:56.159
friends for sure yeah there’s just so

0:20:54.799,0:20:58.559
many issues

0:20:56.159,0:21:00.080
um so since the partition there has been

0:20:58.559,0:21:02.000
conflict between india

0:21:00.080,0:21:04.159
and pakistan both states have had

0:21:02.000,0:21:05.039
multiple wars and border fights over

0:21:04.159,0:21:07.120
territories

0:21:05.039,0:21:10.559
most notably regarding an originally

0:21:07.120,0:21:13.760
autonomous region known as kashmir

0:21:10.559,0:21:15.679
and kashmir during the split they were

0:21:13.760,0:21:18.720
given the choice to become

0:21:15.679,0:21:20.400
to become independent or join

0:21:18.720,0:21:22.480
one or the other side and they decided

0:21:20.400,0:21:24.159
to stay independent but

0:21:22.480,0:21:27.120
yeah that’s another story actually but

0:21:24.159,0:21:29.120
kashmir has been going through a lot and

0:21:27.120,0:21:31.200
yeah they chose to be independent at

0:21:29.120,0:21:34.080
first but now like pakistan and india

0:21:31.200,0:21:36.320
have been fighting over it

0:21:34.080,0:21:37.919
um and technically they’re under indian

0:21:36.320,0:21:40.320
rule but i don’t want to get into it

0:21:37.919,0:21:42.240
so yeah yeah yeah kashmir is now one of

0:21:40.320,0:21:43.039
the most militarized regions of the

0:21:42.240,0:21:45.039
world where

0:21:43.039,0:21:47.200
civilians are subject to a brutal

0:21:45.039,0:21:48.960
occupation by the indian army

0:21:47.200,0:21:50.880
again we could talk about this another

0:21:48.960,0:21:53.360
day because it is a lot

0:21:50.880,0:21:55.200
and in the past 20 years both countries

0:21:53.360,0:21:57.280
have acquired nuclear weapons

0:21:55.200,0:21:58.960
which has become very concerning for the

0:21:57.280,0:22:02.159
united nations

0:21:58.960,0:22:03.280
and today nearly 70 years later there

0:22:02.159,0:22:05.520
are still tensions

0:22:03.280,0:22:07.360
and divisions in the country many

0:22:05.520,0:22:09.280
families have never been able to go back

0:22:07.360,0:22:11.039
to where their ancestors used to live

0:22:09.280,0:22:12.480
and it is very difficult to travel

0:22:11.039,0:22:14.559
between the two countries

0:22:12.480,0:22:15.520
even if you’re trying to visit your

0:22:14.559,0:22:19.600
family and friends

0:22:15.520,0:22:22.460
it’s just not oh my gosh yeah

0:22:19.600,0:22:24.640
well it is possible it’s not that easy

0:22:22.460,0:22:27.120
[Music]

0:22:24.640,0:22:28.559
yeah that’s so sad like i don’t know i

0:22:27.120,0:22:29.919
guess we didn’t really we were like

0:22:28.559,0:22:31.360
we didn’t talk about this when we

0:22:29.919,0:22:33.280
covered the migration part because we

0:22:31.360,0:22:36.400
were just like so shocked by the

0:22:33.280,0:22:37.360
violence but like yeah imagine like

0:22:36.400,0:22:39.360
you’ve lived

0:22:37.360,0:22:40.799
like your whole family has lived in this

0:22:39.360,0:22:42.880
one area

0:22:40.799,0:22:44.480
for as long as you can remember like all

0:22:42.880,0:22:46.080
your ancestors and everything and then

0:22:44.480,0:22:48.880
you have to move to a completely

0:22:46.080,0:22:49.679
new place and india is huge so i’m sure

0:22:48.880,0:22:52.400
like

0:22:49.679,0:22:52.880
every like province every region is so

0:22:52.400,0:22:55.840
different

0:22:52.880,0:22:56.640
you know yeah so and then if you like

0:22:55.840,0:22:58.880
you can’t

0:22:56.640,0:23:00.240
travel with your whole entire family so

0:22:58.880,0:23:02.000
you’re all separated

0:23:00.240,0:23:03.840
yeah if you’re different religions you

0:23:02.000,0:23:06.880
can’t yeah

0:23:03.840,0:23:08.799
just oh my gosh and it’s

0:23:06.880,0:23:10.440
just if your family’s been in this one

0:23:08.799,0:23:13.600
area for

0:23:10.440,0:23:16.960
generations now that there’s

0:23:13.600,0:23:19.840
you need to migrate that’s so weird to

0:23:16.960,0:23:21.919
feel like an outsider just overnight

0:23:19.840,0:23:22.880
yeah yeah in a matter of days all of a

0:23:21.919,0:23:24.640
sudden

0:23:22.880,0:23:26.799
yeah it’s not just a feeling too it was

0:23:24.640,0:23:29.760
like life-threatening if you stayed

0:23:26.799,0:23:31.440
which is why a lot of people yeah and

0:23:29.760,0:23:33.840
then you were risking your life

0:23:31.440,0:23:36.159
to leave you know so either way like it

0:23:33.840,0:23:39.840
was just so dangerous oh my gosh

0:23:36.159,0:23:44.080
yeah but that is the indian partition

0:23:39.840,0:23:46.240
wow wow oh my gosh i’m really glad

0:23:44.080,0:23:47.360
you did this episode because i like i

0:23:46.240,0:23:48.880
guess like

0:23:47.360,0:23:50.640
reading current events like i always

0:23:48.880,0:23:51.360
knew that pakistan and india had a

0:23:50.640,0:23:53.440
really

0:23:51.360,0:23:55.279
tense relationship but i didn’t know the

0:23:53.440,0:23:58.080
history behind it

0:23:55.279,0:23:58.559
yeah and same with like british rule of

0:23:58.080,0:24:01.039
india

0:23:58.559,0:24:03.120
i didn’t realize they were there for so

0:24:01.039,0:24:05.200
long and then they just left so

0:24:03.120,0:24:06.240
abruptly i really thought it was this

0:24:05.200,0:24:08.400
long

0:24:06.240,0:24:09.360
drawn out process but so i’m really glad

0:24:08.400,0:24:11.440
you covered it

0:24:09.360,0:24:12.720
actually can i look up something really

0:24:11.440,0:24:14.960
quick because

0:24:12.720,0:24:16.000
i remember like last at the end of like

0:24:14.960,0:24:19.919
last year india

0:24:16.000,0:24:22.000
passed this law about like muslim

0:24:19.919,0:24:23.600
citizens and i think there was like that

0:24:22.000,0:24:24.240
they’re revoking their passports or

0:24:23.600,0:24:26.880
something

0:24:24.240,0:24:28.080
oh no and i don’t care about that ah

0:24:26.880,0:24:31.200
yeah yeah okay

0:24:28.080,0:24:34.320
so um sorry

0:24:31.200,0:24:35.840
so in oh this was december 2019. wow why

0:24:34.320,0:24:38.960
did i think this was literally

0:24:35.840,0:24:39.919
last year wow okay but like basically in

0:24:38.960,0:24:42.320
december

0:24:39.919,0:24:43.039
2019 i remember reading this in the news

0:24:42.320,0:24:45.840
um like

0:24:43.039,0:24:47.520
india’s parliament they passed a bill

0:24:45.840,0:24:51.200
saying that like they’re granting

0:24:47.520,0:24:52.799
amnesty to uh illegal immigrants

0:24:51.200,0:24:54.880
from three neighboring countries so

0:24:52.799,0:24:55.360
pakistan bangladesh and afghanistan

0:24:54.880,0:24:56.640
they’re like

0:24:55.360,0:24:59.120
okay you guys could come here as

0:24:56.640,0:25:01.840
refugees only if you’re not

0:24:59.120,0:25:03.039
muslim so if you’re a muslim citizen

0:25:01.840,0:25:06.320
from these countries

0:25:03.039,0:25:08.559
you’re not allowed to migrate to india

0:25:06.320,0:25:10.240
and i this was december 2019 so i don’t

0:25:08.559,0:25:10.960
know if the law is still in place but

0:25:10.240,0:25:13.360
like again

0:25:10.960,0:25:15.520
just like tensions between like hindu

0:25:13.360,0:25:17.600
majority muslim minority like it still

0:25:15.520,0:25:19.919
exists today and it’s really

0:25:17.600,0:25:20.640
frustrating to hear that i don’t know

0:25:19.919,0:25:22.080
like that

0:25:20.640,0:25:24.400
that you said like the conflict was

0:25:22.080,0:25:27.360
exacerbated by the british like how many

0:25:24.400,0:25:27.360
years ago you know so

0:25:27.760,0:25:31.200
and like how do you solve that like

0:25:29.360,0:25:32.799
again like ethnic and religious

0:25:31.200,0:25:34.240
conflicts like that

0:25:32.799,0:25:36.080
how do you solve that especially now

0:25:34.240,0:25:39.600
that there’s a hard border

0:25:36.080,0:25:42.640
like separating the two groups right

0:25:39.600,0:25:44.880
if you can’t no i agree

0:25:42.640,0:25:46.720
and um not to spoil anything but i’m

0:25:44.880,0:25:49.840
gonna cover another

0:25:46.720,0:25:51.200
conflict for my next topic and just

0:25:49.840,0:25:53.840
reading about it you

0:25:51.200,0:25:56.480
i i just i don’t know how it’s gonna get

0:25:53.840,0:26:00.240
resolved i hope it all gets resolved

0:25:56.480,0:26:03.039
i understand kind of how much

0:26:00.240,0:26:04.559
animosity both sides probably hold

0:26:03.039,0:26:05.760
towards each other because of everything

0:26:04.559,0:26:08.799
that’s happened

0:26:05.760,0:26:13.120
so it’s tough

0:26:08.799,0:26:16.480
yeah yeah international easy

0:26:13.120,0:26:18.320
so hard foreign policy is so difficult

0:26:16.480,0:26:19.679
and then again like not to go on a

0:26:18.320,0:26:21.440
tangent but then like

0:26:19.679,0:26:23.279
today it’s like when we look at like

0:26:21.440,0:26:25.840
india pakistan relations

0:26:23.279,0:26:26.960
there are so many other countries that

0:26:25.840,0:26:29.520
want to have a say

0:26:26.960,0:26:31.760
in how the conflict is resolved you know

0:26:29.520,0:26:33.360
so like within the u.n like i know like

0:26:31.760,0:26:35.440
nuclear weapons is like a really big

0:26:33.360,0:26:37.120
deal because both countries are like

0:26:35.440,0:26:39.039
you know like increasing their nuclear

0:26:37.120,0:26:41.279
weapons but then it’s like you have

0:26:39.039,0:26:42.799
all these other like western countries

0:26:41.279,0:26:43.120
and then like neighboring countries who

0:26:42.799,0:26:45.600
all

0:26:43.120,0:26:46.720
like want to put their have their say in

0:26:45.600,0:26:48.240
that matter

0:26:46.720,0:26:50.080
and so it just makes everything even

0:26:48.240,0:26:52.480
more complicated so i don’t know

0:26:50.080,0:26:53.840
hopefully this can be resolved

0:26:52.480,0:26:56.480
diplomatically

0:26:53.840,0:26:57.520
peacefully and no exactly and just to

0:26:56.480,0:26:59.440
add on to that

0:26:57.520,0:27:00.960
it’s yeah can you say that because

0:26:59.440,0:27:02.960
during this time

0:27:00.960,0:27:05.360
um if anyone’s really good with dates

0:27:02.960,0:27:07.120
the cold war is also going on so with

0:27:05.360,0:27:09.919
the decolonization

0:27:07.120,0:27:11.039
of all of these british imperial uh

0:27:09.919,0:27:15.360
territories

0:27:11.039,0:27:17.279
they these newly independent nations

0:27:15.360,0:27:18.760
often feel like they have to choose a

0:27:17.279,0:27:21.120
side uh

0:27:18.760,0:27:22.080
yeah soviet union or the united states

0:27:21.120,0:27:25.279
who were the two

0:27:22.080,0:27:27.279
global superpowers at the time and so

0:27:25.279,0:27:28.320
that introduces a whole another realm of

0:27:27.279,0:27:30.399
conflicts because

0:27:28.320,0:27:31.360
you have to choose a side or statement

0:27:30.399,0:27:32.960
yeah

0:27:31.360,0:27:35.120
and you’re such a tired communist

0:27:32.960,0:27:36.880
capitalist exactly and you’re scared

0:27:35.120,0:27:38.799
about maybe getting invaded

0:27:36.880,0:27:40.240
based on what side you choose so it’s

0:27:38.799,0:27:43.679
just

0:27:40.240,0:27:45.440
complexity wow that’s crazy

0:27:43.679,0:27:46.960
i’m so glad you covered this topic thank

0:27:45.440,0:27:48.080
you so much for sharing you did a great

0:27:46.960,0:27:50.399
job um

0:27:48.080,0:27:52.399
yeah hopefully people learned a lot and

0:27:50.399,0:27:54.320
it puts everything into perspective

0:27:52.399,0:27:56.559
especially like we talked about a couple

0:27:54.320,0:27:59.279
of british former british colonies here

0:27:56.559,0:28:00.399
so this really started the whole domino

0:27:59.279,0:28:02.640
effect

0:28:00.399,0:28:04.799
um and yeah we can learn a lot from it

0:28:02.640,0:28:17.840
so yeah thanks for listening everyone

0:28:04.799,0:28:17.840
yeah bye

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